I am getting ready to purchse my second GSD. I am getting a male and the opportunity has arisen to purchase a beautiful puppy there is only one thing holding me back. The puppys Sire and Dam both have the same Dam. I have read so much on linebreeding i think my eyes are going to fall out, im looking for any opinions, comments and help I can get making this decision. Thanks in advance

It depends on what dog is being linebred. More information is needed, but for a 2-2 breeding on ANY dog, the breeders better know what they're doing. Not even alot of very experienced breeders would linebreed THAT tight. Not knowing the bloodline you're referring to, or even the breed for that matter, I would hope that the breeder involved is experienced enough and very intimate with that particular line.

Alot of breeders in europe are big on tight linebreeding, it disturbs me from a moral human standpoint lol, but it has its place in the dog world. If the breeder truly UNDERSTANDS what they are doing and has specific goals they are trying to achieve, often they will do a very tight breeding and use a pup out of that litter to outcross to a different line, that way right before outcrossing they increase the genetic traits they like in their own dog, and hope to strengthen weak areas by breeding to a dog that is strong in those areas and comes from a line (often also linebred on a different line) who has strength in those characteristics. There's alot of breeders who think they know what they're doing so breed too tightly, and there's breeders who do know every detail about the dogs in their lines and have specific and valid reasons for breeding this way. Tight linebreeding is never (or almost never?) followed by more tight linebreeding, it is supposed to always be followed by an outcross.

This here is an excellent reference too:
http://www.ehretgsd.com/genetics.htm#InbreedOutcross

Basically, if the breeder knows what they are doing it can produce some nice dogs with strong characteristics, if the breeder is a novice, it could create a disasterous litter. Not only are the good features more pronounced, but so are the bad... so if there is any medical issue, illness, skeletal flaw, HD, ED etc in the lines, then by breeding this tightly you just increased the likelihood of the puppies displaying these flawed traits significantly.

i agree with all that has been said here about tight linebreeding. i have a tightly linebred dog myself who will only be bred to a complete outcross, if at all. his breeder does know what she is doing, and he's a great physical specimin.

HOWEVER, i would not, myself, call breeding a half sister and brother a tight linebreeding. i would call it an inbreeding, and i think it is too close. jmho and ymmv.

I also think this might be an inbreeding. I remember being able to look up somewhere the rules according to the SV as to what is allowed and I would agree that it is a very scary thing....

I have a dog that was an accidental breeding who is the product of two 1/2 siblings, and he is one of 2 out of the litter that survived. Some bad medical problems caused 1 sister to need to be put down, and he himself has a page full of messed up stuff!! He is a wonderful carpet decoration, however. Everyone can be said to have some redeeming qualities, right!!

So, what I'm saying is, be careful. I understand that tight linebreeding can be great...or a disaster. Are you a gambler? Might help to know odds, which I don't know much about.

Good luck <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

It seems that I've read somewhere that 3-2 is as close as most knowledgeable breeders get.

There's nothing wrong with a 2-2 linebreeding unless the dog being linebred on sucks and/or has some genetic issues that you would be increasing the chances of seeing in the offspring.

it certainly would bring out any latent, unsuspected problems. it's not possible to know everything in advance. i'd certainly closely question the breeder about why she chose this particular sire for this particular bitch.

i only know of one good breeder who has done this close a breeding, and it was a bizarre accident (somehow the brother and sister mated through the wires of a pen while they were being boarded in adjacent kennels). she was able to sleep nights by rationalizing that the two had been the product of a complete outcross themselves, so there was more genetic diversity available in the pairing than if they had been linebred themselves.

let's put it this way: you have the choice of other litters, so shop around. it's always a gamble when you buy a puppy, no matter how carefully bred. but a brother/sister breeding is just a little too close for comfort.

I would call breeding a brother X sister inbreeding, not linebreeding. Something I know breeders do, but I wouldn't. The closest linebreeding allowed by SV is 2-3. Inbreeding can bring out the really great qualities from the dog being inbred on - but can also pull bad stuff up to the front as well - makes inbreeding a risk - but as I said, some breeders do like to do this!

molly

Just remember this, in any line breeding, you will double the good and double the bad, so be careful.