Crate Guarding & Subsequent Biting
#107324 - 05/27/2006 01:35 AM |
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For anyone who doesn't know the back story, I've got a 5 or so year old husky/Rott mix named Buck who came to me as a humane society dog as a foster back in October. He's pretty much become my dog now. His nickname is Spooky with all the ghosts in his head as he's dog aggressive and has weird habits like perpetual licking of you if you let him, which I don't. But through lots and lots of obedience and groundwork/NILIF, he's usually very manageable. However, he's gotten very possessive of the crate lately. He loves that darn crate and is always in it. I suspect it is like his security blanket. I only have room for one crate in my 1 bedroom place until me and my fiance move into a much bigger duplex in July before we get married. I still foster for the weekends for the humane society and the fosters are always crated overnight and when I am not there. Last week, I was fostering a female Siberian husky who fortunately got adopted a few days ago. I came home to Buck and the husky barking at each other furiously through the crate as the husky was in it, though I didn't think much of it at the time.
Tonight, I have a female German shepherd as a weekend foster and since I was leaving to go out to a movie, I had the GSD by the collar to go lead her into the crate while I was away. First Buck left the crate after I called him out but he dashed right back in. I called him out again but he wouldn't move, so I reached in to pull him out by his collar and he bit my arm without a growl or a warning snap. It broke the skin slightly but didn't bleed. So I ran over to where I kept the leashes and put his dominant dog collar and leash on him (I've never had to use it for this, it's always just been for a backup for his prong collar) and hung him for about 10-15 seconds (seemed the longest of my life) by picking up his front legs about 8-12 inches off the ground. His back legs never left the ground as he is 60 lbs and I don't think I could do that with one arm. He collapsed on the ground panting and coughing. I got the GSD in the crate and left to go pick up fiance for the movie.
Me and my fiance came back and he was still on the ground not wanting to move. My fiance told him to sit so he could put his leash on him to go out for the last time of the night and he wouldn't move. So he reached for Buck's collar to pull him up and he snapped at him. I put the dominant dog collar on him, corrected him (but didn't hang him), and took him out.
So obviously he cannot be allowed to bite and snap when he feels like not coming out of his crate. The only other time he's bitten me was when I had had him for about a month or so and as I was leaving for work, he spotted a cat right outside my front door and made a dash for it. I tried grabbing his collar but I accidently grabbed his fur instead rather hard. He whipped around and bit my hand but once again, didn't bleed, so he does have a certain degree of bite inhibition. He ran in the house for the farthest corner tail tucked.
I have the dominant/aggressive dog DVD and am thinking this belongs more in resource aggression. Should I treat it as such? Did I address the biting situation appropriately or was it too much/not enough? Should we go back to square one and keep him on a drag leash with the dominant dog collar attached again? Should we deny him access to the crate during the day? Should I make a point of crawling into his crate randomly so he doesn't get too attached to it? Should I schedule an appointment with the vet just in case he has a medical issue I don't know about like thyroid issues? We will buy each a crate when we move but there is simply not enough room right now. Any ideas to run past you all would be helpful.
"You don't have to train a dog as much as you have to train a human."--Cesar Millan |
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Re: Crate Guarding & Subsequent Biting
[Re: Maren Bell ]
#107325 - 05/27/2006 07:28 AM |
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I'm wondering if by the time you got the dominant dog collar and leash, put it on him and hung him if he had any idea what he was being so severely corrected for. I'd like to hear from other, more experienced people on this.
"A dog wags his tail with his heart." Max Buxbaum
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Re: Crate Guarding & Subsequent Biting
[Re: Elaine Haynes ]
#107326 - 05/27/2006 08:37 AM |
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I'm wondering the same thing. This is the second post about a hanging type of correction I've read here. I've used a similar method in emergency situations. Does anyone know the proper time and place for these and if so could they describe?
Sounds like a bad experience Maren <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> Maybe luring him out of the crate with food next time will help. I wouldn't force or drag him out, but then I have minimal experience with crates (1 foster lab) and shouldn't be posting about it <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> Good luck.
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Re: Crate Guarding & Subsequent Biting
[Re: Maren Bell ]
#107327 - 05/27/2006 10:29 AM |
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I am not at all a professional with dogs, and do not foster. Others here may disagree, but I feel very strongly that your own dog should have his own crate, and that he should not be asked to share. I have three dogs, three crates, and none are allowed to enter the other's space. They are also not allowed to lick each others food bowls. I would stop fostering until you have space for the extra crate. I would never correct a dog for guarding his own crate against a visitor. I correct a dog if it tries to enter another dogs crate (very rarely happens), and I would intervene to stop a fight over a crate of course, but I would never put one dog in anothers crate. In short, I think you overcorrected.
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Re: Crate Guarding & Subsequent Biting
[Re: Elaine Haynes ]
#107328 - 05/27/2006 10:30 AM |
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It was about 5 seconds or so from when he bite me to when I put the collar on (the leashes and collars are about 5 feet from the crate) and did it as I knew in the back of my head even though the adrenaline gets going that it would have to be very fast. It was one of those things that you have just a split second to decide how to react (I was totally not expecting him to bite me) and that was the only way I could think of to correct him very hard in that split second. I lured him out with food later last night without incident. So any other ideas how to prevent this in addition to what I was wondering outloud?
"You don't have to train a dog as much as you have to train a human."--Cesar Millan |
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Re: Crate Guarding & Subsequent Biting
[Re: Maren Bell ]
#107329 - 05/27/2006 10:43 AM |
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It seems obvious to me that you need another crate. That's his bed. He's guarding it, not loving it. If there were no threat of it being used by others, he'd not be in it all day.
I bet you could remove the crate altogether and have less grief. That, or have no fosters. Some don't share so well with others. It's possible that means you, the house, the yard too in his mind.
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Re: Crate Guarding & Subsequent Biting
[Re: Maren Bell ]
#107330 - 05/27/2006 10:48 AM |
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I think you can prevent it from never trying to pull him out of the crate. I had two similar incidents with my male mastiff cross from the dog pound. Both situations were handler error. The first was; he was barking at the window like a psycho. That is like a mortal sin in my house. Dogs are not allowed to act like maniacs without just cause. So without thinking I grabbed his collar and attempted to yank him off the chair away from the window. He turned around and went to bite me, but broke himself from his revery before he did. My mistake and I never made it again. I could have gotten him down with my voice.
Another instance my husband attempted to drag him outside. I forget what he did, but he wouldn't go out when he attempted to let him out, so he tried to drag him. The dog turned around and bit him hard. Once again, handler error. Instead of the Hitler act, he could have tricked the dog outside.
I wouldn't obsess over your dogs reaction. I would just not put him in a situation like that again. Everyone makes a bad call. I know I've made a ton of them, but try to learn after each mistake I've made <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
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Re: Crate Guarding & Subsequent Biting
[Re: Barbara Erdman ]
#107331 - 05/27/2006 10:56 AM |
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I should add, I'm not at all against strong corrections when they're fair or necessary. Some dogs will take a hard correction when it's fair, but when it's not they'll let you know.
I'm with everyone who said get another crate. That should minimize or eliminate the guarding.
*We can edit our posts? I'll just post this new one, not sure if we're allowed to edit?
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Re: Crate Guarding & Subsequent Biting
[Re: Barbara Erdman ]
#107332 - 05/27/2006 12:31 PM |
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To Dan et al: As I said, I currently have no room for another crate in my place or I would certainly get one for each. It's a small 1 bedroom duplex. My fiance is moving into our rental house in the next week or two and it is a decent sized 3 bedroom with a basement, so I think what I'll do is start keeping Buck over there with his crate until I move out of here in July and buy another for over here for any fosters as my other two dogs don't really need one. And yes, I am perfectly aware he's guarding it, hence the title of the thread. I'm not a total amateur. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
To Polly: I don't correct him for guarding the crate from other dogs, either mine or fosters. I do correct any other dog who tries running in there without my permission. However, guarding it from me is unacceptable just like growling or snapping, etc around a food bowl or toy is unacceptable. Perhaps I should keep it closed and only let him in when he complies with a command, same like any other resource guarding.
To Barbara: yes, it was one of those handler error things where you don't think and you're in a hurry (I was on my way to see a movie and was running late) and irritated that he wasn't budging. I was able to lure him out with food later.
"You don't have to train a dog as much as you have to train a human."--Cesar Millan |
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Re: Crate Guarding & Subsequent Biting
[Re: Maren Bell ]
#107333 - 05/27/2006 01:01 PM |
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Perhaps I should keep it closed and only let him in when he complies with a command
This is what I was going to say. Also, he has to come out of the crate on command for it to work well. Try to make this fun and "safe" - more fun and safe for him than being in the crate.
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