Hi all - I've just become a member today. I'll try not to make this too lengthy. We currently have a female,4-year old healer/? mix. Her name is Sasha. Last fall we bought a 9 week old GSD (german shepherd). Sasha and her got along fine for the first 2 weeks and when we were giving biscuits, Sasha snapped at the puppy (once) and we eventally had to put her down a few days later because she had a fracured skull and wouldn't recover. As heartbroken as we were and the desire to have a GSD, we purchased another (Sammi). We've kept these dogs separated in different parts of the house. We tried to put them in the back yard a couple of times when Sammi was about 5 months old with Sasha muzzled but Sasha seemed like she wanted to fight w/Sammi. We've kept them separated ever since. Our dilemma now more than ever is Sammi just turned 8 months old and we're still very fearful of putting them together but realize we need to do something soon. They can see each other every day throug the glass french door that separates them and Sasha seems to have mellowed over Sammi but we're still scared of what will happen if we let them together. We love both dogs dearly and really don't want to give one of them up. Does anyone have any suggestions on what to do here? Thanks so much in advance for any advice you can give.

Lois

To be honest I think you've been VERY silly getting another dog to live with this dog who killed your puppy!

But you should have a look here http://www.leerburg.com/articles.htm

Specifically at the articles:

http://www.leerburg.com/corrections.htm
http://www.leerburg.com/groundwork.htm
http://www.leerburg.com/dog-agg.htm
http://www.leerburg.com/introducingdogs.htm
http://www.leerburg.com/dominac2.htm

There is a lot of reading here but it could be the difference between your dog living in peace or being killed.

HTH

John

Not trying to be too harsh here, but, who's in charge at your house? Are you and your husband the Alpha pack members, or is Sasha just one of the family, a fur baby? I'm looking to paint a better picture of the environment.

1) How is Sasha with other dogs, ones her size more or less? Is she a fear biter?

2) Does Sasha respond to your command? Just how obiedient is she?

3) How does Sammi respond to Sasha?

Thanks for responding.

1) Sasha is usually not around other dogs. We have taken her to the dog park before - she would only show her teeth at other dogs. She kind of shyed away.

2) Sasha minds very well. My husband and I are the alphas in the family. When strangers come over, she has never bitten, only showed her teeth and snapped - but never bites.

3) Sammi just wants to play with Sasha. She is a very sweet-tempered dog. (Sasha weighs approx. 45-50lbs. and Sammi is probably at 80-85 lbs. now at 8 months - not sure how much bigger she will get).

Read what John Aiton posted links to, particularly

http://www.leerburg.com/dog-agg.htm

Sasha shouldn't be showing her teeth to guests, snapping at them, and shouldn't be permitted to.

Make time to sit down (soon) and read Ed's advice carefully. You have one problem dog (Sasha), and she can make your other dog (Sammi) a problem too.

 Quote:

.......It takes a strong will and disposition to deal with two dogs, to set boundaries, to dictate behavior, to dominate the dogs. From the tone of your posts I have come to the conclusion that your idea of what an 'alpha' is and mine are some distance apart.

I guess I have come to the conclusion that I would recommend that you give one of the dogs up.

The poor little puppy.

You saved me a lot of typing, Mr. Arnold.

This is not the situation in a house where the human is the pack leader.

You've been given some good advice. Now it's up to you to see what you are in denial about: Sasha is the pack leader in your home.

For the sake of the pup, I truly hope you will read and learn what people have given you here to read and learn....and I mean this compassionately and with kindness; I am not trying to attack you. You are one of a huge group who make excuses for and downplay the aggressive behavior of a beloved dog. This does no one any favors.

Cattle dogs/blue heelers (same dog/breed) can be VERY tough dogs. They were bred to take on cattle. These dogs will TAKE OVER as a young puppy if you do not make sure that they know thier place.

You may THINK you are alpha but you are not. Your cattle dog is. Most lilkey taking the position because you do not. You may be doing 'good' things in training and you may even think your dog is listening and obeying but IT is IN control.

I had a cattle dog coming for herding training. When I worked the dog, no problems. He KNEW that I am alpha and would not allow him to take control when it was not needed. As SOON as I would hand the stock stick to the owner the dog became a different 'dog'. Didn't listen to a thing the owner asked unless the owner could catch him and make him do it. He ended up biting the end of the tail off one of my sheep.

Talked the owner several times about taking leadership with the dog. He had done some 'good' things but NOT enough. DOg was kicked out of day care as a puppy for being too aggressive and it only grew from there.

Owner had/has very good intentions when working with the dog , but does not understand the breed or the role or alpha and what that means to a cattle dog.

Finally had the guy enter a cow clinic with the dog and an experienced trainer who used to have cattle dogs. Dog did o.k. on cattle however, would lunge at all the other dogs when 'resting'. When the owner tried to correct him, dog nipped him once. Trainer saw what was going on and immediately came and took the dog, talked to the owner and gave the dog some VERY GOOD and NEEDED corrections. These seemed harsh to owner and others however, you should have seen the differnce in the dog.

First, the dog respected the trainer immensely AND wanted to be around him, in spite of the hard corrections. Dog also did not lunge again at another dog and became a calm and peaceful dog.

This dog (and MOST aggressive) dogs do NOT want this alpha position but take it out of defualt. Once they do not have to take the position they can relax and become a 'great' dog.

As the above poster said, you desparately need some GOOD training with this dog and you. There is ABSOLUTELY NO WAY a dog should attack a young pup (or any dog for that matter). You are MISSING signals and communication that is going on between your dogs.....

Mrs. Longobardi:
The other people who have answered you here aren't being cruel or mean spirited, they understand the psychology of dogs and are warning you that Sasha is like a gun with a worn out safety. No one act did it, but Sasha's safety is worn down. There is a terribly good chance that Sasha will make Sammi into a fear biter and you may be on the menu as well if Sasha thinks it's in her best interest.

I suspect you and your husband are terribly normal humans who anthropromorphize your dogs. It's a terrible mistake, you owe your dog strong leadership; they expect it and if you don't lead they will.

You have to realize dogs are always trying to move themselves up in the pack. And they are always testing you. I had to stop my bride just last week because Jäger didn't move for her and she went around him. It was small, but it was a victory for him. It's a thousand little things like that that allow a dog to become like Sasha.

Thank you, Red. I was beginning to wonder. Someone had mentioned, once a dog is bitten by another dog, that leads to permanent behavioral problems. We did take Sasha to Petsmart training when she was about a year old. I remember that Sasha was the 'fav' of the instructor - so she wasn't bad to begin with. The very last session, another great dane pup bit her and Sasha diareahed all over the floor. Perhaps that is what started this behavior. Belive me, we are not stupd nor cruel people - as I said before, we love both dogs tremendously and just want to make things work out. I don't even want to take a change with the dogs getting into a fight - I just want some advise if you think it is worth pursuing and if not, how does one choose?