I have just started giving raw bones ( beef knuckles) to my 8 mo old GSD. Having come from a traditional "No Bones Allowed" upbringing i still wonder about the safty of not choking, bone fragments in the intestiing and such. Why has the vet community taken such a stand against bones if that are better? Most vets don't get a kick back or anything from the food companies. Don't things like chicken bones even when raw splinter more than others?

dawn,
raw bones are FINE, especially chicken necks, wings and backs. beef (or buffalo) knuckle bones & shanks, hog necks and feet are all good recreational bones for your dog. AS LONG AS THEY ARE RAW!!

COOKED bones are an absolute no-no (including ham-bones, BTW). raw bones that i don't give my dogs include small bones from stuff like round steaks & chuck roasts; i don't take the chance of choking, bowel impaction/obstruction, or just simply getting JUST the right size round bone to fit over their jaw.

a big bone (uncooked), is fine with me. raw chicken bones are no problem--as a matter of fact, i've found that my pup LOVES a frozen chicken wing at night. it cools his poor teething, bloody gums, and takes a while to really chew up.

so, i'd say, don't worry too much about raw bones, as long as 1) he can chew them up and eat them, ie, chicken parts, or 2) they're too big to chew into splinters.

you'll get some other, better feedback than this, but it's what i use as a guideline for my poopers <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Uncooked bones should not be a problem. The wings backs and neck are pretty easy for a young pup to handle. I start all my pups on chicken necks. At first I grind them up. By the time they are 6 weeks old the can eat them whole. I always stay to watch them eat though. I did have one pup who got a piece caught in his throut and I was glad I was there to help him with it. At 3 months my pups can eat the leg bones too. They take a little longer because these bones are harder. Just keep an eye on your pup until he gets comfortable eating most bones and you should not have any trouble.

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I have just started giving raw bones ( beef knuckles) to my 8 mo old GSD. Having come from a traditional "No Bones Allowed" upbringing i still wonder about the safty of not choking, bone fragments in the intestiing and such. Why has the vet community taken such a stand against bones if that are better? Most vets don't get a kick back or anything from the food companies. Don't things like chicken bones even when raw splinter more than others?

I would really really love to hear the background to this: "Most vets don't get a kickback or anything from the food companies."

Everything else asked here has been answered, but I'm stunned that no one on this site replied to that one. <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I might not choose the word "kickback," but you know all those cans and bags of grain-heavy commercial foods in the waiting room? Did you think the vet sold them for Hills et al just because s/he likes to support them? No commission? I'm sorry...... I'm not trying to sound nasty. I really am quietly chuckling away here........

Also, do you know who pays for most of the miniscule amount of nutrition class-hours most vets get? (Drum roll, please....)

I truly believe that most vets carry that food and recommend it largely because the glossy brochures and the "research" funded 100% by the manufacturer is where the vets get most of their info. I know that it's possible that some vets carry that stuff strictly because of the money they make on it, but it's good to remember that there is no one teaching them about raw and showing up with shiny posters of fresh food..... because who would? Who has a commercial interest in convincing vets that NOT buying commercial foods is a much better idea?

But irony aside:

http://www.njboxers.com/faqs.htm#rec

http://www.njboxers.com/faqs.htm#whole

http://www.njboxers.com/faqs.htm#started

There are many excellent sites; I just like the way the NJ Boxer site lays out the most-frequent questions. Also, this forum you're reading: Use the "search" function, search all forums, extend the date range to a few years, and then use search words like "BARF" or "B.A.R.F." or "RAW." This site has some of the best discussions of raw feeding on the internet.

And if you look at what Leerburg feeds, that's a great starting point, too.
http://www.leerburg.com/diet.htm

P.S. Good for you to be asking and seeking out the best way to feed your dog. IMHO, fresh food (raw) is a great way to go, if you possibly can. I'm very happy to have switched to raw (years ago). Remember that it's been only a teeny part of the evolution of dogs that involved commercial foods....... and my own opinion is that it was an unfortunate turn of events.

OTOH, there are now some easily-obtained, excellent, and convenient alternatives to an all-natural (raw) diet these days, which wasn't always the case. The Honest Kitchen is one of them (I believe), and I now keep it on hand all the time for times when the freezer is bare. I like to add RMBs, etc., but you actually don't even have to do that.

http://www.leerburg.com/honestkitchen.htm

hey connie--i considered opening that "kickback" can of worms, and decided "NO WAY". but, i guess now i'm going there <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />.

i'm sure that the vet gets a commission on every bag/can of science diet (or whatever) they sell. we need Maren to look at her course requirements and tell us how many hours of "nutrition" are required at the vet school she'll be attending....i know that for my degrees, 2 animal nutrition courses were required, but that was undergrad level, and large animal. i don't remember a small animal nutrition course even being offered--but that was a *few* years ago, sooooo.... <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

at any rate, a vet clinic IS a business, and you can bet that the clinic's not selling food out of the goodness of their heart!

When I worked as a Vet Tech, Science Diet was sold at our clinic.
The Vet's made a *good* profit on every bag, and they and the entire staff ( including me ) used the food as it was sold to us by the vendor at a deep, deep, discount - you wouln't believe how little we payed per bag.

The Science Diet company also provided free CME ( continuing Medical education ) to both the Vet's and the Vet tech's, which we all needed for our license, etc.

That company made wise economic decisions to make it so that Vet's would be turning their back on a significant source of income if they didn't sell Science Diet.....hence most Vet Offices that have the space for all those bags of food *do* sell their product.

My dogs enjoy their chicken wings and ground turkey now a lot more than they ever liked dry food though..... <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I too have been indecisive regarding the completely raw diet,seems like alot of very knowledge people disagreeing. I did speak to a professor at the Vet. school at LSU who was DVM and a Phd. in animal nutrition. He does not recomend raw meat or chicken bones, and was adamently against it. I have a alot of respect for all those who have been raising their dogs on the BARF diet, however I am still undecided about the issue. I hve fed my dog some raw,particularly deer meat. However, it was a fresh kill and had not been processed like what is found in the meat market. Bruce Hart

Very few vets will ever agree with a raw diet. Ask your vet if they personally have regulary raw fed dogs as their patients and what those dogs' health is like. I would like to know why a vet would be 'adamantly' against it. For what reasons?

I feed raw, condone raw and am happy with my dogs health. Been doing it over 4 years now. I can't complain of any problems. (Oh and my dogs have never had a dental, don't need one, and they get their yearly check ups.)

Whatever food works for your dog, great, but there truly is a positive difference between raw fed dogs and dogs fed dry food.

BTW, if your concerned about 'processed' meat found at the meat market, then you should be REALLY concerned about what is found in a bag of dry dog food. Sure glad I don't have to eat stale potatoe chips for the rest of my life! <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

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Very few vets will ever agree with a raw diet. ...... I would like to know why a vet would be 'adamantly' against it. For what reasons?....

Scroll up a little; lots of reason$. <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

JK. We all have to make our own decisions after we do our research. I did a ton of reading first, which was about 1,999 pounds more than my vet at the time had done.

There are a lot of choices these days, luckily, and we no longer have nothing but bags of stale grain and by-products. I'll stick with fresh food (and the close seconds such as THK), but I'm also happy that the whole fresh-versus-commercial issue has exposed so many terrible problems with many commercial foods, because for those who prefer not to feed raw, there are now choices a dog can thrive on.

JMO.

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hey connie--i considered opening that "kickback" can of worms, and decided "NO WAY". but, i guess now i'm going there <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />.

i'm sure that the vet gets a commission on every bag/can of science diet (or whatever) they sell. we need Maren to look at her course requirements and tell us how many hours of "nutrition" are required at the vet school she'll be attending....i know that for my degrees, 2 animal nutrition courses were required, but that was undergrad level, and large animal. i don't remember a small animal nutrition course even being offered--but that was a *few* years ago, sooooo.... <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

at any rate, a vet clinic IS a business, and you can bet that the clinic's not selling food out of the goodness of their heart!

I briefly skimmed Missouri's vet school course catalogue and I saw two or three classes on nutrition, one which looked like it was required for first year vet students (called "Gastrointestinal Physiology & Nutrition"). I noticed one was a clinical rotation sort of class, but it was for food animals and not small animals. So there you have it.