I have a 6 year old Czech GSD, a Grim z PS granddaughter. I’ve had her two weeks, and I believe I have more dog than I meant to buy. I would appreciate advice from those of you who know what you’re doing to help me avoid any bad mistakes. Ignorance on my part is not a good enough reason to mess up.

The dog complements our alarm system and other security measures. Most of the problems in this area are fairly petty in nature although there’s quite a bit of it, and the mere presence of a dog is deterrent enough. We also have an ongoing specific threat that is difficult to avoid and generally armed. I would hope the dog would provide me a little more time to react in that situation. I wouldn’t expect a dog to be capable of stopping that kind of confrontation.

As for the situation in the home, my son is just a baby. My husband is in the military and gone approx 9 months out of the year. I also have a couple of pet cats I’m not willing to get rid of. I have done obedience work with my last dog, a mastiff, but that was 12 years ago. I would classify myself as a novice, especially with a dog like this.

I decided a dog that would bark and perhaps look intimidating was the best bet. It was harder than expected to find a good fit, and I selected a mature import that was already here in the US with some protection training as the best overall choice. I thought she might be a little more serious than a dog that would just bark, but no big deal...probably comparable to a sport dog. I made a mistake in not using a decoy unknown to the dog to test her prior to purchase. That only seemed like it would be a problem for someone who got less dog than they wanted, but it’s a problem for me too because I think I got more dog than I wanted.

About a week ago, I had a “peeping Tom” here at the house that got kind of aggressive. That incident was enough for me to realize she will engage a person without a command from me. Second, I’m not really prepared anyways. Using her to buy me some extra time sounds great, but I was so scared, I just froze. I didn’t react at all the way I thought I would, and this wasn’t all that serious of an incident.

I had a decoy out to the house after that to get a better idea what the dog will actually do. The dog will bite on command (using a sleeve). She’ll also bite in certain scenarios even if I don’t give a command (physical contact). When slipped the sleeve, she will spit the sleeve out and go right back after the decoy. She will target areas of the body other than the arm. The decoy was wearing the sleeve but didn’t give her a great target with it at one point, so she bit the upper inner thigh instead. That effectively ended that session. She outed well for me and he wasn’t terribly hurt, but it overwhelmed me just a bit nonetheless.

Right now, we’re working on bonding and groundwork per the articles on this site. Everything is going well, but I have had the feeling a couple of times that she’s more dog than I’m prepared for. Right now, she’s either in her crate in the house or on a leash or long line outside. I work with her before the baby wakes up in the morning and after the baby goes to sleep at night, and we usually go for one or two long walks during the day plus two or three short play sessions.

We’ll definitely be focusing on her obedience in the future. That was what I primarily wanted anyways...a dog I could seriously do obedience work with. Currently, we’re just doing a little bit of really positive obedience stuff and only on things I know she’ll do every time so I can praise her for it. In another week or so, we’ll start on the obedience like she knows nothing and work through distractions and then on to proofing. Sometimes she has a little more drive than I know what to do with, but I’m confident the obedience stuff will go fine. It’s the protection aspect that I’m concerned about. I know enough to realize I don’t know much. It’s that lack of knowledge that concerns me.

I wouldn’t say she’s a top level protection dog by any means. That’s rare, and she’s too easy to handle for that I think. She is more serious than I expected though. If I had expected a dog like this, I would have gone with someone that would properly finish the dog with me instead of a facility that imports and breeds but doesn’t train.

Hubby prefers finding professionals for me to work with to determine the level the dog will actually perform at and to continue training to maintain that level. It’s no big deal for us if the dog does protection work at a lower level than some might like, but we think I should know what she is capable of for safety reasons. It wouldn’t take much adjustment to how we already have to live to accommodate a dog with a little more protection training than I expected.

I would prefer to find someone with real experience with protection dogs that could help guide me on this. A trainer with experience in this would be ideal, but I think a good Schutzhund club would work too. I have only found info on one PP trainer relatively close by, but that doesn’t seem legit to me. There are several Schutzhund clubs within 2 hours, but one is closed to new members and the others seem...well, really social. I have heard good things about the Snohomish Schutzhund club, but it’s 3 hours one way to the north, and that’s tough with a baby since I’m alone most of the time. I could probably do that a couple times a month though. I’ve heard of a few clubs in Oregon that might be closer, but I don’t know much about them. I think there is at least one trainer that works protection dogs down that way, but I don’t have a name or contact info.

I think the dog I have right now is very nice. She certainly seems confident and stable. I am concerned that it’s a really big step from a mastiff 12 years ago to a working GSD with protection training. The kennel reassured me it would be no big deal, but I'm not so sure now that I actually have her. I think I can handle this dog fine, as long as I have experienced guidance. I would appreciate your knowledgeable input on this.

Thank you for your time. Please feel free to PM me if you prefer.

Are you able to get help and support from the individual who sold you the dog? Because it sounds like the hands on, one on one training with such an experienced dog is what is helping the most.

Always hard to give 'real' help over the internet. There are alot of training books/videos available here.

Funny (not haha funny) how the situation you are in is EXACTLY why I know I'll never get a Protection dog for my lifestyle. WAY TOO much time and training needed to fit in to my current lifestyle and dog experience (and I've raised 3 dogs, 2 of them GSD's). Nice to hear you working on this situation right away. Hopefully others who DO have protection dogs will chime in with real suggestions (surprised they haven't yet).

Good luck with your new dog.

Yes, I certainly could get hands on help from the kennel I purchased her from any time I need it. The problem is that they're a couple of states away which would bring me right back to "long distance" help. I wouldn't mind returning there every so often, but it won't take the place of more regular work.

If needed, I thought perhaps I could work using DVDs and other materials and work with a trainer less often, but I still think hands on help will be important early on.

Her protection work should lessen if we don't do maintenance stuff. If I can't find adequate help, perhaps I could correct some of that drive out of her. I'm too much of a novice to know that for sure though.

Thanks for the encouragement.

Michelle,
Did you and the PPD vendor that you got the dog from not pre-plan who you were going to do your follow up/ maintenance training with?

Will,

Okay, I’m hanging my head in shame and kicking myself for this one. I did ask that very question before I purchased because I was concerned about it. They answered that they require a handling course before you can take possession of the dog...either at their facility or your home for an extra fee. You can do annual maintenance after that if you want to keep up with the bite work, but that’s optional because “it’s not like the dog will forget how to bite.” I worked the dog a few days at their facility, and I paid the extra expense for them to come here and work with me in my home/home area. That was supposed to take care of it, and I didn’t look into it any further. That was a serious error on my part.

I believed that that amount of training would be sufficient for what I wanted. I planned to concentrate on obedience. Personally, I thought I'd just never give the bite command, and in effect I'd have a dog that just barked. Unfortunately, it's not that simple. I sound like a moron even to myself when I read what I thought.

Walking around in circles doing obedience stuff and doing a few bites on a sleeve didn’t adequately prepare me for this dog. Two days after taking possession, I knew things were getting out of hand. This kinds of sums it up. After I took the prong collar off the first time, something just seemed wrong about the process. I searched online to find out how to do it properly. The Leerburg site came up, and I discovered the training articles. Wow, did I ever do that wrong! I actually took it off over her head. It’s a good thing it was way too loose to begin with, or we would have had some serious problems. It was pretty touch and go at that, but at least I didn’t harm her.

Now, I’m sure they would have shown me how to do that if I had asked, but I didn’t know to ask in the first place. I can just imagine what else I don’t know, and honestly, that frightens me. I’ve spent 4-6 hours a day since then reading pertinent info on this website. I know enough now to realize I messed up in a fairly big way. I know I need help and supervision, but now I have the dog and trainers aren’t as easy to come by as I naively thought they would be if ever a problem did come up.

I am not a trainer, PPD or otherwise, however, I do believe that hanging your head will do you NO favors in this case.

See your mistakes for what they were/are and move on. We all make mistakes.

Are you concerned at all about your child's safety? For your own?

Personally, I admire your ability to be honest with yourself and this board. Every experienced trainer/expert was a novice once. I think you have good insight and are doing the right thing now, seeking advice, trainers, etc...

Point taken.

As for my safety and my child’s...well I think you always have some concerns about that with an adult dog you don’t know very well. Am I particularly concerned about it? No. She’s calm, confident, and easy to handle. I haven’t seen anything that would concern me on that level. Plus, I don’t allow her near my son or allow my son to go near the dog and won’t for years. That’s just a general precaution, not anything specific to this dog.

She actually seems like a very nice dog. I’ve never personally seen a dog that was so calm all the time. She doesn’t get rattled or tense up. She has very nice obedience although she wouldn’t listen to me if there were distractions around, but that will come with work and time. She’s only barked twice, the one time to alert me that there was someone at the window that shouldn’t be there...well except for when we’ve done bite training here, but that’s not the same thing.

Realizing her protection training was more in depth than I thought did put me off balance you might say. I felt unprepared and not educated enough to make sure I'm always safe with her. If it wasn't for that fact that I know she knows more about that than I do, I wouldn't worry about it at all if that makes sense.

Mostly I was concerned that I had the potential for a problem. We haven’t had any problems thus far. As far as sometimes feeling I can’t handle her, a lot of that comes down to drive issues. I just don’t always know what to do with the drive she’s got. I played with her ball tug the way I saw her handler do. At first, she totally blew me off. Now that we’ve started bonding, she got super wound up when I did it. Well, then I just didn’t know what I was supposed to do with all of that energy. We stopped playing that way after that. Now, I throw the ball and she retrieves it. It’s not nearly as exciting for her, and that works better all the way around right now.

hey michelle,
i can't speak to your questions about your bitch--though she sounds REALLY GOOD to me, for what you bought her for, and i'm glad you found this forum because there are some really *old* pros on here to help you. <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

i can relate however, to having a dog with a lot of (in my case) potential, in your's--ability, and not quite knowing what to do with it. and, not having anyone close who DOES know what to do with it! so--best of luck, these guys/gals WILL help you out, and keep us posted!

ann

Michelle,
Speaking as the greenest of the green, I have a new, adult PPD I just brought home from the trainer/seller June 15, after training with her for 2 weeks in Georgia. I guess I did a little more research than you before buying a dog, but we're in much the same situation as far as a new, potentially lethal family member that cannot read our minds. You need QUALIFIED help. Forget the guy who comes by to bite-test a strange (Czech import, no less) PPD with just a sleeve and then is surprised to have an accidental bite. If he knew what he was doing, he would have been wearing a bite suit, but if he really knew what he was doing he probably wouldn't have gotten bitten even without it.

You need someone who trains/sells not just PPDs to private parties like us, but for police and even military use. Ask for law enforcement references. You cannot afford any more shortcuts or lapses here. Sounds like you have a nice dog, but if you're feeling overwhelmed, you undoubtedly are...

You have truly found the means for your salvation on this web-board. But please don't use a medly of advice from several posters, like me. <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Find one highly-respected trainer on this forum, contact him directly with a PM and please please please PAY HIM for his expertise. These guys (and gals) have spent lifetimes learning what they know, and just because they're clever enough to summarize their advice in short communications (unlike this, I know, sorry)this is their livelihood.

Anne, who tends to go on a bit

Thanks to all for your replies. I contacted the vendor, and they acted very quickly to assist me with this once I specifically requested help finding a trainer. I have been put in contact with a trainer and training facility not too terribly far from here that they recommend and are very familiar with.

This vendor has been a great source of information and help as long as I know what I need to ask them. There only seems to be a problem when I don’t specifically know what it is I need to ask. Perhaps it is hard to work with newbies as new as me.

I still would appreciate any input you might like to offer, but the most critical need has been met. Now that I have found competent supervision, I can focus on bonding and training with my new dog.

Michelle, who tends to go on a lot...but I’m working on it <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />