I was reading/listening to the Ebook provided by Leerburg and he states that he does NOT vaccinate past 12 weeks with the exception of 3 year Rabies because of the law. My question is - I've called a TON of vets local to my area and they ALL refuse to do the three year without ALL the extra shots... Romeo has already been wormed and recieved his distemper and needed shots... he will need his 1 year Rabies and than his 3 year Rabies...
Should I opt out on the vet and just go to a Free based Clinic?
Do you vaccinate?

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I was reading/listening to the Ebook provided by Leerburg and he states that he does NOT vaccinate past 12 weeks with the exception of 3 year Rabies because of the law. My question is - I've called a TON of vets local to my area and they ALL refuse to do the three year without ALL the extra shots... Romeo has already been wormed and recieved his distemper and needed shots... he will need his 1 year Rabies and than his 3 year Rabies...
Should I opt out on the vet and just go to a Free based Clinic?
Do you vaccinate?

You are calling vets to do the legally required 3-year rabies shot and they are saying they will not do it without also administering a parvo-distemper vaccination "booster"?

"Do you vaccinate" is actually "Do you do yearly boosters after the puppy parvo-distemper vaccinations," then.

I don't, and many vets don't do them any more, either. Even of the ones who do, many often now do a five-year booster only.

If you have done the reading and decided not to do annual boosters, then you CAN find a vet who will do the rabies shot and nothing else. Before my vet changed her protocol, I called around and spoke *to the vet* (not the receptionist) and said what I wanted, and I offered to sign an informed consent.

I ended up not having to, but I did discuss it with the vet. This was several years ago; I doubt that signing an informed consent would even come up nowadays. But you have to talk to the vet him/herself, I think.

Here's a quote from http://www.caberfeidh.com/Revax.htm :
QUOTE: Since epidemiology tells us that canine parvovirus and canine distemper are almost unheard of in vaccinated adults, we can conclude that in most cases, the immunity to those vaccines lasts many years, probably a lifetime. END QUOTE <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

You need to get past the receptionist and get to talk to the vet. You are the client and you will decide what servies your pet will recieve (within reason of course). A well-written letter also does a lot of good. Use brightly colored paper - vet's desks are very full of things to do.

I go to 2 vets at 2 different clinics. They respect my opinion, we've hashed out a written program of care. I do the rabies as required by law and no other vaccinations .

When you go to a restaurant, do they say, No - you can't have the fish fry unless you have pickled eggs and 3 dishes of ludefisk first? When you take your car in to get an oil change, do they refuse to change the oil unless they also put in a new transmission and new seat cushions?

Arm yourself with knowledge and demand respect.

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I was reading/listening to the Ebook provided by Leerburg and he states that he does NOT vaccinate past 12 weeks with the exception of 3 year Rabies because of the law. My question is - I've called a TON of vets local to my area and they ALL refuse to do the three year without ALL the extra shots... Romeo has already been wormed and recieved his distemper and needed shots... he will need his 1 year Rabies and than his 3 year Rabies...
Should I opt out on the vet and just go to a Free based Clinic?
Do you vaccinate?

Here's some reference material to print out and ask the vet whether or not (and why not) s/he is aware of Kirk's Current Veterinary Therapy, 13th and 14 Editions:

QUOTE from http://www.caberfeidh.com/Revax.htm :

References

1. "The incidence of canine distemper, canine parvovirus, canine adenovirus, and feline panleukopenia among vaccinated adults (>1 year of age) is virtually zero. The correlation among vaccination, the development of a "positive" antibody response, and protection from exposure to virulent virus is excellent. Furthermore, protection from exposure derived from immunization is sustained for periods as long as 5 or 6 years or more." (Kirk's Current Veterinary Therapy XIII; 2000; "Vaccines and Vaccinations: Issue for the 21st Century", Richard B. Ford and Ronald D. Schultz.)

2. "A practice that was started many years ago and that lacks scientific validity or verification is annual revaccinations. Almost without exception there is no immunologic requirement for annual revaccination. Immunity to viruses persists for years or for the life of the animal." (Kirk's Current Veterinary Therapy XI, "Canine and Feline Vaccines," Phipps, Schultz.)

3. "In our studies, puppies vaccinated annually with modified live CPV-2, CDV and CAV vaccines received no added benefit from annual revaccination throughout a period of 7 years when compared to dogs that were vaccinated as puppies then challenged with virulent virus at 7 years of age. Both groups of dogs were protected from challenge infection with CPV-2, CDV and/or CAV." (R.D. Schultz, "Considerations in Designing Effective and Safe Vaccination Programs for Dogs," May 2000.)

"(W)e have found that annual revaccination, with the vaccines that provide long term immunity, provides no demonstrable benefit and may increase the risk for adverse reactions." (Schultz, "Duration of Immunity to Canine Vaccines: What We Know and Don't Know.")

4. "Companion animal vaccination guidelines are currently undergoing critical scrutiny by representatives from private practice, industry, and academia. Despite widespread recommendations for annual revaccination, information available today suggests that current vaccination practices in North America do not necessarily correspond with the body of knowledge pertaining to duration of immunity from licensed vaccines. As a direct result, companion animal practitioners should expect significant changes in the current standard of practice pertaining to the administration of vaccines to dogs and cats.

"Among the most significant changes anticipated in the future will be the recommendation to discontinue routine administration of annual booster vaccinations to adult dogs (distemper virus and parvovirus) and cats (panleukopenia, feline herpesvirus 1, and feline calicivirus). The incidence of canine distemper, canine parvovirus, canine adenovirus, and feline panleukopenia among vaccinated adults (>1 year of age) is virtually zero. The correlation among vaccination, the development of a "positive" antibody response, and protection from exposure to virulent virus is excellent. Furthermore, protection from exposure derived from immunization is sustained for periods as long as 5 or 6 years or more. (Kirk's Current Veterinary Therapy XIII, published in 2000:"Vaccines and Vaccinations: Issue for the 21st Century", Richard B. Ford and Ronald D. Schultz.)

5. These notes were taken by Betty Lewis, AHT, from a seminar she attended given by Dr. Schultz in August 2001, and are used with permission:

Core Vaccines are distemper, adenovirus, parvo and rabies. He says all dogs must have these.

His protocol is to give a single vaccine (he recommends the 5-way with the lepto left out) at 12-14 weeks of age. Wait two weeks and run parvo and distemper titers. If the dog has an adequate titer measure at Cornell as 1:100 or higher, there is no need to repeat either the vaccination or the titer for the life of the dog. Rabies is given separately and has to be re-vaccinated by state law.

**Giving multiple vaccinations does not boost immunity, and, in some cases may erode it.

Even though he recommends that the titer level be 1:100, he does not recommend re-vaccination unless there's a really low titer. He says it probably won't improve immunity, though it may make you feel better.

Principles of basic vaccine protocol include having breeders give vaccinations at home so puppies don't go to the vet's office (sources of infection).

The rabies vaccine is the most reacto-genic, he said, so best to give it separately. Benadryl can be given prior to a rabies vaccine. It will "dampen" the reactive effect of the adjuvants, but won't interfere with the immune response. END QUOTE

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You need to get past the receptionist and get to talk to the vet. You are the client and you will decide what servies your pet will recieve (within reason of course). A well-written letter also does a lot of good. Use brightly colored paper - vet's desks are very full of things to do.

I go to 2 vets at 2 different clinics. They respect my opinion, we've hashed out a written program of care. I do the rabies as required by law and no other vaccinations .

When you go to a restaurant, do they say, No - you can't have the fish fry unless you have pickled eggs and 3 dishes of ludefisk first? When you take your car in to get an oil change, do they refuse to change the oil unless they also put in a new transmission and new seat cushions?

Arm yourself with knowledge and demand respect.

We were posting at the same moment, Anne! I could've saved my typing finger. (Well, two fingers, actually! <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Fire your vet.
Vaccinosis is real.
We're good at turning the immune system on, no clue as to how to turn it off, but can mask the symptoms with steroids.
Lost one, never again.

I googled "vetrinary conference in Hawaii" once, found one,
decided not to contribute to the problem ever again!

I disappoint the vet techs, and simply don't care!

I also am not fighting hotspot outbreaks every few months,
and don't miss that heartache at all!

Dan,

I do not vaccinate every year, about every three, but as an immunologist I will comment on your statement about immunology. The immune system is very good at self-regulation. Any infection, vaccination, etc that results in an immune response also results in down-regulation of that response, otherwise, we would all succumb to auto-immunity after every exposure to the environment. The titers that persist after immunization are a result of immunological memory. So while I do think over immunization can be a problem, and my vet stopped recomending yearly boosters at least ten years ago, a healthy immune system deals with infections and immunizations very well.

There is no inherent difference between an immunization and exposure to an infectious agent as far as your immune system is concerned. Both stimulate either naive or memory cells, and generate or expand memory as the infection is cleared. Some vaccines do contain immune stimulents, but similar factors in bacteria are introduced into your body when you scrape your skin. In extreme cases (toxic shock), a reaction to these factors can lead to an overwhealming and dangerous inflammation.

sounds logical to me.
what I will never do again is booster a beast who gets punk
afterwards, or one recently battling bouts of skin ick.
Not after loosing one that way!

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sounds logical to me.
what I will never do again is booster a beast who gets punk
afterwards, or one recently battling bouts of skin ick.
Not after loosing one that way!

Is that Anjin (a beautiful dog, btw)?

here's a question for you guys:

my boy has had 8 and 12 wk vax, no 16 wk follow up (the 12-wk really knocked him out for about 12 hrs). he's due for his rabies, when i take him in, i'm SURE doc'll want to do the "missed" 16-wk vax.

i'm thinking i'll simply tell him that i'm here for the rabies, nothing else, and that i'm sure his first 2 series have adequately protected him. and, if he doesn't think they have, he can pull blood and run titers at his expense if he doesn't believe me (though that seems a bit adversarial). i just don't think it should be at my expense becasue he doesn't happen to believe me. he's a good, common-sense vet otherwise--i don't want to antagonize him (i can be a bit overbearing sometimes <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

thoughts? print some of the info here to give to him? (that's my vote)...