My sister has a 1 yr great dane and my mom has a 3 month dane puppy. I asked her if she was practicing good pack leader skills to which she replied "oh yes, I sleep with her". She was concerned though because the older dog does not listen and the puppy was starting to follow suit. They live on 10 acres and have always allowed their dogs to run loose. Problem is they live on a road where most people drive 55-70 but their other dogs have always listened. My mom has also never done any kind of ground work for obedience. My sister did with her 1 yr. but at the time got no support from my folks. I introduced a book to my mom I recently picked up called "Leader of the pack". It mostly follows the common concepts shared in this forum. I came back from a 5 day vacation to find she made drastic changes in the way she manages the dogs. Humans now eat first, etc. The only thing is she still sleeps with the puppy. She has them teathered to a leash 24/7 but the leashes have the handle end. I told her why that was a problem but she ignored me. She also does not conduct any obedience training with her pup. The puppy is incredibly docile, quiet and really really cute. The older dog has a very very soft temperment and they are from the same breeder. What are the chances her current practices will be sufficient to keep this dog in line when it reaches 120 pounds. After all, many people all over the country do the same thing without problems.

DZ

This dog will NOT be in-line when it reaches 120 pounds. As you said, her older dog isn't in line now, why on earth would the puppy be?

The people in this country that do it "without problems" actually have a TON of problems. Then again, these are the same people who probably think trash-picking is cute, feed tablescraps, and follow their dogs gleefully as they walk them.

Get this woman duct taped to a chair and put some Cesar Milan DVDs on for her. Then enroll her in some obedience lessons. If all else fails, when the dog pulls her down a flight of stairs or knocks her onto the pavement, and she's in the hospital with a broken hip, she'll think of your advice.

What's wrong with feeding table scraps ( not that there's many in my house), my dogs love appropriate leftovers.

Not to hijack the thread or anything but..., I'm getting sick of the whole Ceaser Milan thing. Ever since it was pointed out that he was using the ecollar on that black shepherd and putting it into avoidence over a stupid cat and acting like a few tsss tssss sounds and walk around the block was all he did, well...... that's just bogus to the viewers. Believe me , i'm not looking to debate the topic, it's already been done, just stating my opinion <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />,
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What's wrong with feeding table scraps ( not that there's many in my house), my dogs love appropriate leftovers......

You are right about there having been more than enough comment on the episode with the e-collar. His office replied promptly and in full to my email about it, and about the fact that the producers deleted his explanation about the e-collar (which belonged to the owners, who insisted that he use it). Do you like how I slid that in while pretending not to discuss it? <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I vote for dogs eating appropriate leftovers, too.

Forgive me, my 'table scraps' comment is being misinterpreted. I was refering to the dogs that sit -rightthere- at the table while you eat, drooling, pawing at you, nosing at you, and are rewarded for their cute faces by a bite of steak.

I'm all for table scraps for my dog, but she gets them in training and she is NOT permitted to be pushy at the table at all. 'Counter surfing' with her nose is not even permitted. It just irks me when I'm at dinner with a friend and their 'perfect' Golden Retriever jumps into my lap and goes for my tuna.

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...... I was refering to the dogs that sit -rightthere- at the table while you eat, drooling, pawing at you, nosing at you, and are rewarded for their cute faces by a bite of steak........

<img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> I know what you mean. Even "polite" begging (the kind where the dog sits three feet away and stares longingly at every forkful) drives me nuts. <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

No, my dogs aren't allowed to do that. Sure have met a lot of "perfect" dogs who do, though, just as you say!

i've had very soft dogs--english mastiffs, so bigger and heavier than danes--that minded no matter how many stupid mistakes i made in the way i raised them. it can happen. but with a busy road out front, i wouldn't count on it.

"This dog will NOT be in-line when it reaches 120 pounds. As you said, her older dog isn't in line now, why on earth would the puppy be?"

If you read my post you'd see why the puppy should be different.

I asked what are the chances, you cannot logically say that it "will NOT be in-line" unless you can see into the future. If you read what I wrote, "this woman" is my mother so show some respect! And she has made drastic changes which will alter the behavior of the older dog as well as the younger therefore; comparing the behavior of the older dog now to the behavior of the younger dog in the future is also not logical due to the "drastic changes in the way she manages the dogs".

I don't know where the issue of table scraps came up as she does not do this so I ask again if anyone wishes to answer. What are the chances her current practices will be sufficient to keep this very very soft dog in line when it reaches 120 pounds. I don't mean will it not jump up on the bed or ignore her sometimes (I'm sure it will) , I mean will it try to rule the house as mine does or are Great Danes more of a mellow dog.

As most of you know I have an aggressive chow and I am trying to educate my mother so her dog does not get like mine. Taking into account the different breeds from different breeders and different circumstances I hope she'll be OK. My main concern is the size of her dog.

Thanx! As for the road, she's going to fence in a portion of her backyard. My sister also purchased an e-collar for her 1 yr old (I didn't explain this before. My sister lives with my parents. She's 33, a RN and living the good life) and has a copy of the e-collar training DVD. I convinced her to buy it as these dogs need allot of room to run and my mom couldn't afford to fence in their entire lot. They now toilet ( like there's an actual toilet outside <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> )the dogs on leash and my sister bought a 30 foot lead to start the e-collar training.

I have a friend with a great dane, very soft temprement just like you describe. The dog's OB isn't bad, but not consistent. The dog's been let run around their yard since puppyhood, other than taking a crap in the neighbors yards a bunch of times when unsupervised, the dog stays in their yard. She's scared of everything so doesn't really have any desire to wander off. She doesn't pull on a leash if you put the prong collar on her on the live ring, and if she is at the end of the leash (not pulling) she seems to know she can't go any further so does this weird gallop-in-the-air thing like a rearing horse, funny stuff. The only things I hate about great danes is when they jump up, and their tail, but you can't train a dog not to wag their crotch-height-incredibly-hard whip of a tail. I would just work on the recall with an e-collar, if she's happy with a disobedient dog then she needs a recall for the dogs at the very least. Also Great Danes ain't that smart, you cant slap an e-collar on and expect em to understand what the stim means... you need to introduce it to them a certain way so they know what it means, because otherwise they will get shocked, then stand there looking all panic stricken and confused because they don't know what to do... to the inexperienced they see it as the dog disobeying, in reality the dog hasn't a clue what the stim has to do with the command you gave them... so then the level goes up until it's high enough to make the dog yelp, n then they think they got attacked by something n run to mommy n daddy, not because they called, but because the dog feels safe with its owners.

I won't ever own a great dane, I like my "small" dogs.

As for the level of softness of my friends great dane -- she wears the e-collar all day (she's collar wise so listens better with the e-collar on even if it's not used often) -- as most people know, on the e-collar the strap is so long that there's usually excess strap hanging next to the dogs neck... if I give the their dog a command n tug on the excess e-collar strap with my hand, the dog goes into total submission, that's how soft a "soft great dane" is, they don't need any level of correction, you can restrain a soft 120lb dane with your pinky finger and a large prong.

I wouldn't do much more than motivational/food based OB with a puppy either because they sound very soft from what you describe... in a soft dane pup, their crazyness and disobedience stems from their being a puppy, not because they don't wanna listen or what not, it's just their character. Just use a flat collar with a leash and food motivation for the dog to learn all the commands, then when the dog is older you can start onto the correction phase of training with the minimum required correction to get a response out of the dog, n you gotta be really calm when correcting them or they'll think you're mad at them and just lay down.