I have watched the Building Drive and focus many times over the last year and it worked nicely with my show line male that is now 18 months old. I would consider him borderline w/ his drive level for this method of training but I learned a whole bunch on how to build drive in this style of dog. I just watched the "OUT" portion 3 times last night. I learn many new details each time I watch pieces.

I have a young working male that is 10 months old that I just got from Germany who has extreme ball drive. His drives are very high in all phases. I picked him up from the airport 16 days ago. He has taken to me very well and he has an awesome temperament. His name is Chuck von Dorneburger Bach and he is son of Falk von den Wölfen. I have started working w/ him on Focus, Focus and more Focus. He was just introduced to the OUT when I got him. He is very advanced in his bite work for 10 months. He is absolutely amazing compared to my show line male. No comparison really. I have no problems building drive and even went to using a prong during a drive session because he is so high in drive. I currently will OUT him 3-4 times during a drive session. He is a touch chewy during parts of the drive session but once I start bringing him into my arms and petting him and walking him in a circle his nerves settle down.

The real problem I have is ending the drive session. I currently have been ending the session buy telling him at various places on the way back to the kennel to “OUT” the ball and then I just leave the ball on the ground and take him to his kennel. He will then go crazy and keep trying to get at the ball as we proceed to the kennel. I will then just drag him to the kennel and he eventually gives up but does not like it. If I pick the ball up and put it in my pocket or try and hold it, that can be dangerous. He will jump, chew at the pocket or just do anything to get at the ball. I do not want to correct him too much at the end of the session because he does not understand this yet. Once he understands then I can pop him very firmly w/ the prong. What is the best way to end a drive sessions w/ a young dog that has this extreme amount of ball drive? Is the method of telling him to out the ball on the way back from a training session in various places bad? Any suggestions are welcome.

The rank issue I have been watching very closely but remember we are just 16 days into our bonding. I am trying to become buddies and earn his respect. I do not want to make him scared of me but I doubt I could do that w/ this dog. He is a real handful. I have slowly started doing things to make me alpha. I make him sit in his kennel when I enter, I make him sit until I say he is allowed to eat. I do all the little things that make me the pack leader. I have slowly started correcting him for things he should not do. I believe I have gotten very far in two weeks w/ bonding and the rank issue.

I have tried to let Chuck take the ball to the kennel. This has worked and he will sometimes lay and want to chew on the ball. He will even drop the ball in the water bucket, take a drink, bite at the water and then get the ball. It is kind of funny because after every drive session he will go to the water bucket and get all pissy w/ the water. Letting him take it to the kennel works but chewing on the ball is not allowed.

Thx for the suggestions

If your dog is showing really high drive and possessiveness for the toy, look at addressing this issue at the beginning of the session. Teach your dog the game doesn't start until you tell him it does, even if he can get to the toy. You kind of set him up by showing him the toy, but not exactly teasing him into drive with it. If he is really drivey, he will quickly go into drive and try to bite it. Tell him with your words and body language the game doesn't start until you say it's okay. As soon as he settles for a second, release, praise and start the toy moving quickly.
You could also try letting him carry the toy to the kennel if you know he wont mouth it at all. Then have him out it before he goes into the kennel and you don't have the conflict of keeping him away from the ball. I'd also think about using a tug instead of a ball, so the dog will get a lot more practice biting an area/object that is more similar to a sleeve/suit.

Daniel, JMO, but I would have spent the first several weeks or so just making friends with this pup & not worring about 'getting to work' with him. I understand how much you would want to do this, since I too just got a new dog last year that was just turning 3 yrs old & had a fair amout of training, mostly obedience on him, already. I also have a female that I have had since 9 wks old & was just turning 2 yrs old at the time I got this new male. It is very tempting to want to get started with them. I spent the first 3-4 weeks or so, just making friends & then started with simple obedience commands, just as if he knew nothing & I was starting to teach him all over again. It was actually AT LEAST a couple of months before I ever brought out a tug & did any tug work, let alone OUTS with this dog!! Obedience, also teaches a dog who is in charge & you don't even need to do corrections to accomplish this if done from the gound up like I did. I used all motovational training, hotdogs, toys & praise. It was quite a while before I felt that it was time to start to proof my retraining with any corrections. With all the obedience training that I did from the ground up with this dog...I never had an 'out' issue or an issue with stating that the game of tug was over. And this was with a mature male not a pup. All I am saying here, is take it slow, you dog is still a pup. You will have many years with him in which to train him. Many of the dog suppliers put far too much training on young dogs, just to be able to say that they have all of this training to sell the dogs & to ask higher prices for the dogs. This does not mean that it is in the best interest of the pups to be rushed along this quickly. JMHO. BTW my male has tons of drive & my female has extreme drives. So the high drives have nothing to do with outing or ending the game. Good luck with your pup.

Thank you for all the advice. I believe I have formulated a plan to end the drive/focus session. I think all was good advice. Considering how young my male is I plan to only out 2-3 times each session and that is it for now. The last out will be the end of the game. I feel it is best to make him out the ball before he goes into the kennel. Remember I have put almost no presure on Chuck to the this point. The only presure I have used is making him out the ball but that is the only way I can get the damn ball from this monster. I do not have an out problem at this time. When I say out he spits the ball right out and there are no issues. I want to keep it this way. I know you might feel it is a little early for the drive and ball work but this guy loves to work with me and play the game. He just needs to focus and have some manners while we play the game. This is what I am showing him. He has a very solid grip and he already hits the sleeve like a rocket. This dog really knows the game on the field. It seems in Germany they move much quicker than we do w/ our dogs here in the US. Our head trainer was really suprised how mature he was. The person who did all the bitework in Germany said he was very mature in his protection for this age. I know every dog is different but you guys have some awesome advice and I think I am on the right track. Chuck and I will bond and continue playing ball aka "building drive and focus".

Thx to everyone who replied

I have read all of the good ideas, but still have one question. I have a two year old male Mal and we just graduated patrol school. I bought the DVD on drive building and the bonding. The issue I have is that I can put him into drive and then when I do let him have the toy he will jog off with it. If I ignore him he will bring it back and I begin a tug session. My question is how do I end the session without increasing his possessive issues with the ball? Right now I gave the "saddle up" command and right before he jumps into the cruiser I give the out command. He has begun to out on his own before he jumps in. Sometimes he jumps in with it. Any help would be great!
Thanks
Dave

Next time he outs before getting in.. Pickup the tug.. build drive and don't let him have it.. he'll pickup pretty quickly (the same way that he learned to out before jumping in).

As for the jogging off (he should be on a long line). That way.. he can't jog off <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Hope this helps

Once again, I'm sure I'm probably too novice to be chiming in. But I'd be interested in feedback about my thoughts, as that will help me extend my learning.

When we train here with Dave, some sessions "end with frustration" (the dog goes back to the car/crate without the prey object) and sometimes the sessions end with "satisfaction" (the dog gets to CALMLY and fully carry their prey item back to the car/crate, and hold it CALMLY and fully until they drop it - then the item immediately "goes away.")

Bottom line - if the dog isn't vested enough in the "prey item" to keep it (i.e. drops it half way back to the car/crate) then we end with frustration, which builds drive for the next session.

Bottom line in our training is that the SECOND the dog drops the item after the session has ended, the item goes away. Any opportunity to re-grip the item is considered a handler mistake. (those happen, but we learn going forward to NOT let handler mistakes happen over and over.)

Beth