This is my first post so please be kind <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />. I have two Rotties, a 10 month old female and a 2 year old male. I am researching the Raw and BARF diets and am really intrigued. The one question that I am not finding an answer to (and I have really looked - although it is probable I overlooked it) is this:
Why is it that cooked bones splinter and raw ones do not??
I have seen all the warnings about cooked bones but how do the dogs even digest/eat the uncooked ones? Aren't they too hard?? I mean obviously, since so many people feed raw, they are not -but-I am trying to understand the mechanics of this. When I give my babies the basted knuckle bones for treats they just lick off all the flavor and leave the bone --wouldnt this be similar??
And where on EARTH do I find a chicken "back"?? <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />
Thank you all for your time!!!I appreciate it!!

Jessica - learn to use the web board search function. THere is a tremeandous amount if information here on that

Ditto!

Bones will splinter when they have been cooked. See for yourself with, say, a pork chop bone before and after cooking. Raw is dense and breakable but not in shards, and the cooked version pulls apart in sharp splinters.

Read these Q and A:
http://www.njboxers.com/faqs.htm

and picture a wolf eating his kill. Bones, meat, fat, and the prey's last meal........... this is what dogs have evolved eating, along with ripe produce like fallen fruit, some berries, and whatever they could scavenge.

To use "search," use all forums, type b.a.r.f., or BARF, or raw, and expand the date range from one week to a year or two (or more).

And check out the Leerburg feeding program (very similar to my own..... <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> at
http://www.leerburg.com/diet.htm

You'll have so much info by then........ you'll be an expert! And my experience is that you will be VERY happy you made the switch. JMO.

I just wanted to say that I really appreciate all the information. I was using the search engine incorrectly, and once I figured it out was bombarded by information. I am now taking my time getting all this info together so I can make informed choices for these great dogs!! Thank you all again!!

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I just wanted to say that I really appreciate all the information. I was using the search engine incorrectly, and once I figured it out was bombarded by information. I am now taking my time getting all this info together so I can make informed choices for these great dogs!! Thank you all again!!

"Bombarded" is a good word. I gave the same instructions to a member of our training club, and he pointed out to me a few days later that he had to limit the date range from 5 to 2 years in order to lower the number of raw threads from "thousands" to "hundreds." <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Okay, please don't poke fun but I have another question. I figured since it was sorta related that I would just stick it in here instead of creating a whole new thread. Any information will be greatly appreciated...

SO I started giving my Rotties some uncooked pork neckbones, uncooked peas and uncooked carrots. All human grade, washed and set out nicely in clean pans. They, in turn, ate the veggies and took the meat out into the yard to work on. Seemed like they really enjoyed it too!! My question and issue is this:

I started this on Sunday...since then their POO (although much more compact and solid) is SUPER stinky!!! I mean it is so strong and rank!!

Is this normal? And if it is normal will it go away eventually? Shoo!! <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> Thanks for your help again...

BTW I checked the search engine - correctly this time - and I didnt find any info on this so if I missed it I am sorry for wasting anyones time and space...)

Thanks in advance!!!

Stinky poo is very brief with raw......... gas too. I'd add probiotics and/or natural plain live-culture yogurt for a while.

Also, produce with a lot of cellulose is not easy for dogs to digest.

If you really mean RAW peas (as in not frozen and not canned, but fresh uncooked peas from pods), then dogs can't digest them well. Frozen vegetables are blanched, so are not raw.

Pea pods are a LOT of cellulose for a dog.

And this is contrary to popular belief, but nonetheless true: raw carrots are almost impossible for dogs to digest. You can see this by the way they go in and the way they come out (same) <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />.

Finally, these are two of the sugariest vegetables, and they're two I reserve for occasional treats.

Less sweet produce, either processed or cooked, really works best for me.

I know a million people are going to say "I feed raw carrots all the time," and I know they do, and it's fine, but you asked. Very sweet, hard-to-digest raw vegetables don't do anything good for poop (or really, for the dog in general). <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Raw meat and bones, yes! Can you get some chicken backs and necks?

http://www.leerburg.com/feedingdogs.htm is a great place to start.

Thank you so very much!! Speaking for myself personally I swear I can not sing the praises of this website and the information on it enough.

I went to a neighborhood store and they have agreed to special order chicken backs for me. They are .59 a lb and come in a 60 lb case which the butcher is going to seperate out for me for easy feedings (THANK THE LORD FOR THAT!!) -- so I found my chicken backs...LOL.

I was feeding frozen peas, not the ones in the pods - but if I read your post correctly either way they are too sugary for everyday diet.

So any regular canned veggies will do? Are their any veggies they SHOULD NOT have due to poison or intolerance concerns (like how they shouldnt have chocolate)?? I went to the link, and believe me I will continue to research but I don't want to hurt them in the meantime...

Thanks again.

If you avoid grains and stick to low-sugar produce, you'll be on the right track.

Yes, all canned and frozen vegetables are cooked (a lot for canned; a little for frozen). Canned are very high in salt unless you get no-sodium-added.

I tend to rely on the local farmers' market and Trader Joe's cheap organic frozen vegetables and wild fish for variety..... but everyone has different ways to get cheap variety into the dog's diet.

You'll want to read these and check out their ideas:
http://www.leerburg.com/feedingdogs.htm
http://www.njboxers.com/faqs.htm