Hi everyone,

I met a puppy a few weeks ago. At the time she was seven weeks old. I was told by the breeder that the puppies had been playing before I arrived. The female pup ran off to the porch and sat and watched us. She did not give any body language that indicated she was afraid. The male pup (littermate) stayed and played and hung out for a bit. The female stayed on the porch and watched us. She then came over and played ball with her male littermate. She would steal the ball nad run back to the porch with it.

I called and spoke with the breeder today. She said the female pup is starting to show really "alpha" tendencies. I did not ask for any specific behavioral indicators. The breeder mentioned that someone came onto their property with another dog and the pup growled. (I think the pup is now somewhere between nine and twelve weeks of age. ) She also said this puppy likes to play "rough".

There are several other GSD's within this pups pack (including her mother.) All the dogs live in the house with other animals. There are various animals (geese, chickens , horses) on this property.

I have not met the dam. The breeder tells me that she was a "kennel" dog prior to them getting her. Even though the dam lives in the house, I was told she is a "bit rough" around the edges.

If I decide to take a more serious look at this pup, I will of course temperament test her. I also will ask a knowledgeable member of the local schutzhund club to go with me.

What do you guys think?

I'm interested in what others have to say about this. I like a pup who comes up to me and wants to play, sniff, and who plays with its littermates. The stand-offish ones - well, I got one like that once, she appealed to me because she seemed independent and she stood out cause she hung back from the others. Turned out she was harder to train than any other dog I ever had. She was very independent and wasn't willing to work with me, and remained that way until she was about 3 years old. One thing I would have to see is both parents, and if pics are included in the pedigrees of both parents, I would like to see the grandparents, etc as well. Part of the reason for this (for me) is I don't want a pup who has had a roach/banana back parent or grandparent, etc in its line cause I'm thinking that banana back is bound to show up again somewhere and don't want it in my pup. Wondering why the dam is "rough around the edges" - how old is she and why is she still like that? Unwillingness to work with her owner/trainer? Maybe the pup you saw will be like her mother?

Carolyn,
Do you have another dog in your home? Is it a female as well if you have another dog? My understanding is that two females do not live well together, unless you are planning to keep them 100 percent apart. Yes I would bring some one from your local club with you for sure. I am thinking here that Ed would ask if this dog at 12 weeks or older is still running with the pack or is she seperated at all times. My understanding is that keeping them together until about 8 weeks is a good thing, but beyond that it is not such a good thing, starting to become doggie.
You did not mention blood lines are but I am also assuming here that both mom and dad are not working dogs correct?

What are your more specific questions?

You *sound* concerned about:

A) the female pup running off to the porch and yet this breeder claims this pup is showing alpha tendencies

B) not having met the dam

C) that the female pup is starting to play rough

D) that a strange dog came on to the property and growled

E) that there are other animals on this farmstead

F) that the dam lives in the house and is not now kenneled, is rough around the edges?

It seems to me you have a myriad of questions here and it might be benificial to others if you can specify your exact concerns or questions...

My question to you is have you done any homework/research on the breeder? Have you been referred to this breeder by someone reputable?

Sandy,
I have not looked at the dog's pedigree.

Both parents are working dogs. I believe they are DDR lines.

I can't remember how old the dam was when she was acquired. Even though she lives in the house my interpretation (from what I was told) you can tell she was initially raised in a kennel. She also plays very roughly (according to her owner) with the pups. This is also her first litter.

The breeder called me back after my initial visit and she recommended I wait for her other dog (who we met and have no reservations about) has a litter.

I was going to wait but it seems as if we *may* be allowed to get a pup sooner than we projected.

I have no reservations about the dogs living around a lot of animals. I see that as a positive step towards socialization.

Carolyn

Carolyn, would this pup be around a female in your home? I ask because I too am not a fan of 2 females in the same home, without elaborate seperation methods for their entire lives. Closeness in age is another factor in same sex dogs in the home. I guess I'd be somewhat concerned about a pup being in the pack that long. Does the owner provide lots of one on one with her and the pup? Is it just allowed to run around all day, in a chaotic home of lots of comings and goings? The aloofness seems a bit of a breed characteristic but also could indicate a dog who isn't that engaged w/people. I've seen this myself several times in homes where dogs are like pieces of furniture - nice to have around but treated like inanimate objects in some ways. Not good for future training. As you noted, I'd take someone along w/me who's able to independently assess the pup, AND the breeder. She seems a bit dodgy from what you've written. How is it wise to breed a dog who's aggressive, like the dam? That stuff is transmitted to pups, in some ratio, and having a dam who's not engaged in the pups isn't a good sign either. Just my 2 cents. <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

 Quote:

Sandy,
I have not looked at the dog's pedigree.

Both parents are working dogs. I believe they are DDR lines.
.....The breeder called me back after my initial visit and she recommended I wait for her other dog (who we met and have no reservations about) has a litter.
.....I have no reservations about the dogs living around a lot of animals. I see that as a positive step towards socialization.

I agree about living with other animals. Does this particular pup actually have any interaction with the other animals though? Am also wondering if breeder has any other reason for recommending waiting for another litter (other than the litter will be from a dam you have no reservations about). Just thinking you need more info, like the pedigree also. You might see how the pup responds to you without any littermates around at all and nothing to distract her for a while, then bring in a distraction (another person or pup) and see then how she responds. This might tell you something more about her. I'm certainly not an expert, so I have to rely a lot on my common sense, and doing the above makes sense to me. Ed has a tape, can't remember if it's Raising a Working Pup or Bite Training Puppies, where he is very specific about how to choose a pup from a litter. He also has an article about doing that (if I remember correctly, have read so many of them and gets mixed up if I've read something or seen it on DVD). If you want I can find out which DVD the info is on. Just let me know.

at 7 wks old, i personally want a pup to come over, check me out, then go back to what it's doing if i offer no stimulation. a pup that sits back and watches, to me yelps weak nerves (even if she just watches, no scaredy-cat body-language). reserve is good in a grown dog, not a pup. pups should be out there, exploring, experiencing their world. not on the porch.

JMO