I just read Will's comment on handler softer less correction needing dogs, I call it, Easy dogs.
I had an impression that most people do not want much of a "hard a#$" dog to work with. I am used to nice dogs, hard on biting, easy to get an OB on and not to constantly have "discussions" . I know that a lot of people do not like Czech dogs for the very Handler Easy reason, not enough chalange for the handler. But I think that this is basically what breeders in Czech/Slovak dogs are trying to accomplish. Hard dog on a field but ease to manage. Well heck 15 year old kids are training in CZ/SVK for ZVVs. When I started going to the club I was about 13 and most of us got titles on our dogs.. There were couple harder dogs for handling but nothing major (and IMO it was the Alfa raising issue with them).
I just wanted to kind of hear your opinion about the Harder, or Less hard dogs to handle. Bacically I had only dogs from CZ/SVk and 90% of them did not need prong.. or very little.
Let me get to know you.. I am still learning about preferences in dogs here.

Hi, i prefer a harder dog. My dog is very hard. We`ve had our battles but he is an excellent dog. And when he works you see the pwer in the work. With the softer dogs it`s just a different type of training. I just train a soft dog for a BH for someone. Now you would never know she was as soft as she was wheni first got her. When i first got her she heard the word fuse and would platz. She would always try to go into avoidance. But by the time i was done with her she can handle a real good correction. You just have to know how to build them up. BUT they need drive to work them through the correction. This dog had tons of ball drive so it made it easy for me to work through the softness and toughen her up

i am kinda with mark on this one. the girl i have now is not a hard dog and not a soft one either. for me having 2 very young boys this is a perfect balance. she is hard enough so if i put a boot in her butt she wont shutdown and yet is soft enough that her and i arent having heated discussions. now if i lived by myself or with just my wife i would like a little harder dog. it really just comes down to what the handler likes. i enjoy the dog that always wants to be on top and caresless what i am saying cause he is going to do what he wants. i enjoy the very independent dog that still looks at me as alpha. i wont say that a hard dog works better, i think that just depends on how the dog is raised. like i said it just comes down to what the handler likes.

but, not only what the handler *likes*, but what the handler can deal with; i think it actually takes a more skilled handler to bring the best out of a softer dog, than it takes for *any* handler to deal with a hard dog.

a hard dog is WAY more forgiving of handler-error than a softer dog. finessing a soft dog takes real dog-reading/reacting skills--as above: building confidence. i like a little harder dog, but love the challenge of a softer one: how low can i say "platz" and get a platz? can i work it (and i do this with my harder dogs) to where i simply "..ssssss..' and get a "sit"?

i don't know much, but i find w/hard dogs, start firmly, then finesse downward, toward subtle. with softer dogs, start subtle, work toward firmness/confidence.

hope this makes a little bit of sense--i know what i'm thinking, but maybe it doesn't translate well onto the internet... <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

i ended up with my first hard dog this go round (after dogs all my life) because i told the breeder i wanted a dog for competition obedience and backpacking. i got just what i asked for. he's a terrific obedience dog, and i've never had a more eager backpacking partner (he carries the heavy stuff).

but it was a steep learning curve for me, learning how to handle a harder dog. for a pet, which is what my dog is 99 percent of the time, i really prefer a much softer dog. next puppy, i will be quite explicit about wanting an easy-going temperament.

i love my boy and he's taught me a ton. but he's also a ton of work!

I have a really hard dog. I've only had experience with soft dogs before. While softer dogs are easier and less of a pain on the butt for me, my guy's hardness is a fresh change. Like people said, I don't have to watch what I'm doing and the dog can take my mistakes as well as his with a grain of salt. He doesn't react to my stress as the other dogs do which makes it easier for me not to be stressed in the first place, if that makes any sense.

Like I said before, softer dogs are easier to train for me. I don't think the (truly) handler hard dog is easier to train. It's not a matter of just jerking the dog around to get him to do something. If you did that to my dog he'd stand and stare at you like a rock. I need as much subtlety and motivation with him as I do with my softer dogs, without the benefit of being able to put pressure on him to make him 'speed up'. Because pressure makes him 'fight back'.

As he's getting older and our bond is growing, I've found that voice corrections work better on him than anything. He can and does ignore leash corrections, but voice corrections make him rethink. Whoever said that you start out hard with them and that it gets easier over time is right on. If he wasn't such a dumba** at times, I'd say he was becoming a 'handler soft' dog. <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I don't necessarily have a preference--I take dogs as they come--but I am hoping my next dog is not as hard as him, simply because it would be a pain in the butt to try and handle two dogs like him.

I don`t believe in start firmly with hard dogs at all. It really depends on the dog. But my dog who is really hard. And i do mean Hard, does best out of drive (toy). Cause he likes the fight. That`s why the prong and E-collar really don`t work with him. He redirects from the pain and frustration. So when i have to correct him i use a nylon choke. What a great invention hahaha. I`m actually taking my dogs son in a couple of weeks who i think is out of his mind but the breeder who got him back at 10 weeks cause the people couldn`t handle him told me i should take him or she`s selling him. He`ll be to big for her to control. He`s a crazy monster already at 3 months. I can`t wait <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

what might be a hard dog for one won't be for another; same with sensitivity. a hard dog that has just enough sensitivity to want to please the handler is ideal and easy to train. i'm with kristine......take the dogs as they come. the only thing i really don't like to see is a novice handler with a handler hard/aggressive dog. that is a worst case scenerio and whoever sold that dog to a newbie deserves to be strung up. JMHO

Mark, my dog is pretty much the same. He'll respond better to a choke than a prong *if* I wanted to go the route of correcting him while in drive (if corrected with a prong for not outing when biting a decoy for example he'll just scream into the sleeve and clamp harder). But he always comes back stronger in drive after corrections which is not really desireable for him because he tends to get hectic then and starts going after hands and legs...so as much as possible I stick with voice and positive reinforcement.

Thak you guys.