I am in touch with the owners of a littermate of our male GSD. They live in farm country, and their home is next to their parents home on the (much) larger farm. Between the two households, they have somewhere between 4 and 6 GSDs. Every e-mail I get seems to describe the health problems of both the people and the dogs.

They spare no expense - they take their dogs to the U of I vet clinic and places like that. But each and every time I suggest that raw feeding, or better feeding (than standard "percieved as high end" kibble) might help - those notions are flatly rejected.

I'm just venting my frustration that people who are HAVING health problems, and love to WHINE about them, aren't willing to even consider a dietary change as a possible help to thier dog health problems.

Where is the "Beating Head Against Wall Endlessly" smiley when I need it.

Beth

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I am in touch with the owners of a littermate of our male GSD. They live in farm country, and their home is next to their parents home on the (much) larger farm. Between the two households, they have somewhere between 4 and 6 GSDs. Every e-mail I get seems to describe the health problems of both the people and the dogs.....

Remember that old truism, "You are what you eat" ?

We and our dogs really are, on a cellular level, made of the food we eat. Isn't it funny how such a profound idea can be overlooked, as if what we ingest every day had nothing to do with our body's well-being?

Maybe if you urged them to take just one tiny but important step -- say, increasing vegetables and fruits for the humans and adding fish oil and Vitamin E to both the humans' and the dogs' diets........

Maybe they are just overwhelmed by the idea of a complete dietary revamping.......

Freah real food has made such a difference to the health and well-being of every dog I have had since I switched -- on a scale of 1 to 10, maybe a difference of 11.

It's sad that we persist in treating chronic ailments with emergency room measures (which are wonderful for broken legs!), and overlook the most basic of all the things we can do to improve our health.

Have you told them that their dogs are doing the equivalent of dining out at McDonald's every day? How about that the good companies pour their money into the food, those who have crap food need the money diverted into extensive advertising? How often do we see a commerical for apples or chickens or organically grown vegetables compared to how often we see an ad for the arches or that damn freaky looking BK King?

Give them the movie "Supersize Me" to watch and tell them that that's what happens when one lives on fast food alone, then tell them that that's the equivalent of what they do to their dogs on most kibble.

As always Connie, thank you for you support! I was hoping for that, needed that, and I thank you for that!

The latest summary was an e-mail about a TV program about how city water is typically processed, and how these folks were so disgusted - and are thankful to be on well water. (I agree, but that's OT)

I responded back with "I know what you mean. I saw a TV program about how kibble is produced and it really disgusted me...." <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

How do you eat an elephant? One bite at a time. How do you get people interested in at least considering raw feeding? One dog at a time.

Boy it gets tiring sometimes!

But thank you Connie!! Now where is that "bowing" smiley when I want it!

Beth

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.....How do you eat an elephant? One bite at a time. How do you get people interested in at least considering raw feeding? One dog at a time......

Or even one meal for one dog! <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

It can be so overwhelming to read about the ten zillion nutrition changes we "should" make to enhance our defenses against heart disease, diabetes, chronic fatigue, osteoarthritis, etc., etc. Sometimes I think one positive but simple change can give the courage to make another one.... and snowball! <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

For dogs, adding the anti-inflammation benefits of fish oil and E just might improve the coat, the joints, and the stamina enough to make more changes look doable.

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Have you told them that their dogs are doing the equivalent of dining out at McDonald's every day? How about that the good companies pour their money into the food, those who have crap food need the money diverted into extensive advertising? How often do we see a commerical for apples or chickens or organically grown vegetables compared to how often we see an ad for the arches or that damn freaky looking BK King?

Give them the movie "Supersize Me" to watch and tell them that that's what happens when one lives on fast food alone, then tell them that that's the equivalent of what they do to their dogs on most kibble.

Sadly, I think they'd rather b*tch about "genetic disorders" that breeders have "burdened them with" than just take steps to improve the overall health of their dogs. Their pet dogs. I love pet dogs too. My old Beagle loves to track, and my middle aged mutt female loves to catch frisbees.

Cr*p like this just motivates me to keep feeding raw, and keep giving all my dogs fun stuff to do that keeps THEM healthy and vibrant.

Thanks for listening to my rant...

GO tracking old Beagle!!

GO high nerve, decent drive GSD!!

GO frisbee girl!!

That will be my "mantra" for training tomorrow... <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Beth

I tried going to the Royal Canin site. I was looking for the actual food (labeling content) of their various formulas - the Adult GSD formula in particular.

I'm pretty sure they publish that on their web site, and I'm pretty sure I'm having a Friday PM brain fart. Can anyone else find it? I'm interested in the corn content, but other grain content as well. I'm such a B*tch.

*Still Banging Head*

(but the dogs are sleeping soundly, looking forward to their tracking, OB in drive, protection, etc. work tomorrow)

Beth

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.....I was looking for the actual food (labeling content) of their various formulas - the Adult GSD formula in particular.

Royal Canin German Shepherd 24 ingredients
from http://www.royalcanin.us/dogfood/germanshepherd.html

Chicken, brewers rice, brown rice, chicken meal, chicken fat (naturally preserved with mixed tocopherols), soy isolate, cellulose, natural chicken flavor, sodium silico aluminate, beet pulp (sugar removed), fish oil, soya oil, dried eggs, potassium chloride, calcium carbonate, sodium tripolyphosphate, dicalcium phosphate, choline chloride, brewers yeast extract (Saccharomyces cerevisiae fermentation solubles), tyrosine, salt,  taurine, inositol, niacin supplement, vitamin E supplement, glucosamine hydrochloride, marigold extract, DL-methionine, ascorbic acid (source of vitamin C), chondroitin sulfate, calcium pantothenate, zinc oxide, pyridoxine hydrochloride (source of vitamin B6), thiamine mononitrate (source of vitamin B1), riboflavin supplement (source of vitamin B2), zinc proteinate, iron sulfate, manganous oxide, vitamin A supplement, rosemary extract, manganese proteinate, folic acid, copper sulfate, copper proteinate, biotin, calcium iodate, vitamin D3 supplement, sodium selenite, vitamin B12 supplement.

The top ingredients: Chicken (not chicken meal), which means that the water in the chicken is included in the weight; chicken "meal" OTOH, means that the meat without water makes up the whole weight of that ingredient. Brewer's rice: a "Food Fragment," lower cost by-products of another food manufacturing process. Brewer's rice is a waste product of the alcohol industry. Chicken meal is below brewer's rice in the formula, meaning that there is more brewer's rice and more brown rice (more of each) than chicken meal.

These two notes both apply here:

QUOTE: Pet food ingredients must be listed on the label in descending order by weight. However, the weight includes the moisture in the ingredient, which makes it tricky to interpret. "A moist ingredient, such as chicken, which may be 70 percent water, may be listed ahead of a dry ingredient, such as soybean meal, which is only 10 percent water--yet the soy actually contributes more solids to the diet," says Susan Donoghue, V.M.D., owner of Nutrition Support Services, Inc., and past president of the American Academy of Veterinary Nutrition.

Similar materials listed as separate ingredients may outweigh other ingredients that precede them on the list of ingredients. For example, chicken may be listed as the first ingredient, then wheat flour, ground wheat, and wheat middlings. The consumer may believe that chicken is the predominant ingredient, but the three wheat products--when added together--may weigh more than the chicken. END
from http://www.fda.gov/fdac/features/2001/301_pet.html

I would guess (because all we can do is guess) that if you combine the brewer's rice, brown rice, and soy isolate, that combination is more plentiful in this formula than chicken.

My problems with my dobie's gas were well cronicled on another thread so I won't repeat any of it here. The raw diet just isn't for everyone and like the folks you are speaking of I wanted to avoid it or at least keep it as a very last resort. I was feeding what I thought was a higher end kibble. On the advice of many (especially Connie)I set out to fix the problem. After Merrick, I switched to EVO (no grain), then thinking Chicken was the problem I tried FROMM's on the advice of a local store. As Connie pointed out I managed to get rid of the chicken but reintroduced the grains in the process. My last stop on the kibble merry go round (before switching to Honest Kitchen) has been Natural Balance Potatoe and Duck formula.

I think its been 6 days now with no signs of any adverse reactions she previously experienced. My dobie is finally cured and I'm no longer leary of believeing it. <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I don't know if you could get the folks to make that switch or if you believe it to be a decent food to use but it sure has worked for us. BTW= When the problems persisted after the switch to Fromms the store owner advised me to switch to the Natural Balance. She was also kind enough to inform me that Petco carries it since they are much closer to where I live. She said she recommends it when all else fails but she really does carry only the super premium foods. I like to give business to folks like her so I will be making the drive in the future to her store.

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.....My last stop on the kibble merry go round (before switching to Honest Kitchen) has been Natural Balance Potatoe and Duck formula......I think its been 6 days now with no signs of any adverse reactions she previously experienced. My dobie is finally cured and I'm no longer leary of believeing it. <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />.....

Glenn, you put a lot of effort into this challenge, and I know your dog will be forever in your debt, with her pain and distress gone.

Potato isn't a perfect food for many dogs, but IMO it's SO much of an improvement over grain-heavy foods.......... ! Especially with a dog who is either sensitive (or allergic) and suffering from gas (a common product of the canine inability to digest grains efficiently), there's just no comparison. Ya done good! <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

BTW, this food is a good choice for an elimination diet for any dog who has never eaten duck (since allergies develop with repeated exposure). It's limited in the number of ingredients and contains none of the common allergens. It's very low in fat, though, and dogs generally do best on more fat, but since fish oil is such a beneficial supplement on so many levels, that's easily fixed by adding some when serving. (It does contain some fish oil, but it's not raw, and it's a very small amount.)

I'm really glad, Glenn, that you are finally seeing all your effort being rewarded!