Ok, so my cousin has had an English Mastiff named Dozer for 2 1/2 years that tries to bite every dog that crosses his path. He lives with 2 other dogs both being Am Staffs. He is not aggressive to them at all. The 2 Am Staffs are both female.

I have been trying to work with his dog on his aggression but we have hit a wall because corrections are not working with him and he is too big and his hips are too fragile to do a take down.

I was hoping somebody on the board could recommend some other methods to try. We dont need him to love and play with other dogs we just need him not to attack a dog if hes being walked and we decide to stop and chat with a neighbor who may have a dog with them.

We had a consultation with a local trainer and he said we should just avoid those situations but that just is not always possible for the most part.

We are at a total loss here. Any help would be MOST appreciated.

Thanks!

B.B

Fit him with a top quality muzzle & make sure he wears it anywhere you may encounter other dogs, just for starters...

I don't think I would do a "take down" as you put it, with a 200lb aggressive dog that doesn't listen to corrections. JMO <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />. Why not just muzzle the dog on walks where he's likely to meet another dog if you just MUST chit-chat. Hopefully, he's controllable on a leash. Do you walk him on a prong? I don't think you can be too careful with this dog; this could be a disaster very quickly, (which is why you're posting this <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />and any and all precautions need to be taken, for Dozer's safety as well as dogs he may come in contact with. One incident, and you know what could happen to him... <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

I know it's a tough situation and it'd be great if he could/would change, but I think the most responsible thing to do, at this point, would be PREVENTION-like a muzzle. Unless you're Superman, breaking up a dog fight involving a 200lb dog who's seriously pissed is not easy. Depending on the size of the dog, it could be fruitless at that point anyway. Sorry to ramble, but this has all the ingredients of a real horror story if not handled properly. Don't get me wrong-I'm not saying you can't control this dog; I'm just saying that ONE slip-up could be devastating. I think to say that "it's not possible" (to avoid other dogs) is really IRRESPONSIBLE.

I have a dog that I know, being responsible and REALISTIC, that I can't take to a dog park. (Not that I would anyway, but I'm trying to make a point here...) He lives with 2 dogs also, but outside dogs are another story. He's not techincally dog aggressive; he's dominant, and that can lead to fights if another dog doesn't submit. You, OTOH, have a dog that ADMITTEDLY is dog aggressive and tries to "bite every dog that crosses his path." You are seriously negligent to take this dog on walks where he will encounter other dogs without a muzzle. I know you don't own this dog; I'm just using "you" b/c it's easier <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />. They want to stop and chat w/neighbors w/dogs? Tough @#$%. Sorry to be harsh, but the original trainer was 100% dead on. <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

I am always very reluctant to advise using a prong for aggressive and stupid behaviors, because when a dog is in a frenzy of aggression, pronging the dog just elevates them big time! You don't want the correction to elevate the dogs state of mind, you want to bring them down to a calm state. Hanging a 200lb dog from a choker is no easy task though, and doing any type of "take down" by which I assume you mean an alpha roll, on any type of dog, let alone a dog that weighs 200lbs, is a pretty dumb thing to attempt, especially if the dog is in a frenzy of aggression, it can't end well!

I would do what has been said and at the very least put the dog in muzzle. To walk the dog and be able to restrain the dog, I'd buy a baby pinch collar and a choke chain, hook the pinch to the live ring and use the choke chain as a backup connected simultaneously to the prong in case the baby prong breaks. The smaller prongs on the baby pinch will be more effective on a dog that doesn't respond to correction, but being smaller they are weaker and more likely to break, the last thing you want is for it to break at the wrong moment, hence the choke chain backup. I wouldn't prong/jerk the leash if they are in a frenzy of aggression, but it will at least help hold the dog if there's any question of the dog pulling the handler down the street.

You know... giving this some additional afterthought... you need to read the dog, if you can get the dog to understand a correction from the baby pinch, then don't let it get to the point where you need a choker, don't let the dog get into the frenzy in the first place, correct the dog for even looking at another dog, if you correct the dog while he's still "thinking" then there is no frenzy to elevate, but your timing has to be great and you need to be able to read your dog well and be completely aware of your surroundings, once the dog is in that frenzy, the prong will potentially make things worse. Catch it before it happens. The dog may never like other dogs, but you can control the reaction and make the dog at least tollerate another dog being in sight so the owners can walk down the street without having to apologize for their psycho dog <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

To clarify, I wasn't recommending using the prong as a corrective collar; I was thinking that if the dog is lunging and pulling on the leash at, say, a dog across the street, a prong might tone it down a bit. But, if he's flipping out on a dog, I'd be quite leary of trying to correct it solely with a prong JIC the dog decided to "come up the leash."

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To clarify, I wasn't recommending using the prong as a corrective collar; I was thinking that if the dog is lunging and pulling on the leash at, say, a dog across the street, a prong might tone it down a bit. But, if he's flipping out on a dog, I'd be quite leary of trying to correct it solely with a prong JIC the dog decided to "come up the leash."

Gotcha <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

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and doing any type of "take down" by which I assume you mean an alpha roll, on any type of dog, let alone a dog that weighs 200lbs, is a pretty dumb thing to attempt, especially if the dog is in a frenzy of aggression, it can't end well!

I have worked with many aggressive dogs and have used the Alpha Roll with much success. Even with 85lb and up dogs. The problem here is not my timing or technique, its the fragility of this particular dog. Now dont get me wrong, I dont use the Alpha Roll for every case. Just the most severe. And I can tell you that it has really paid off. I can also tell you that you must do it 100% correctly or yes, you will get hurt. And hurt bad.

I'm a pretty big and well conditioned guy so although I always err on the side of caution I am able to use such techniques and be successful.

What I need to know is what other techniques I could possibly implement here since nothing else Ive tried is working.

Maybe an e-collar?

Has anybody else had a case similar to this? What would you do?

B.B

Brian,

Mike gave some good advice. You have to keep the dog from loading up and getting missile lock on another dog before he has the chance to do it. This means you have to be able to read him. It also means that you have to be very aware of your surroundings at all times and be quick to redirect him before he locks onto another dog.

Just because you cant see the strange dog coming doesn't mean that its not there. When walking your boy be very cognicent of the wind. Dogs can smell others from hundreds of yards away and if yours does he will have a behaviour change that you should be able to detect. As soon as you see this change it is time for you to intervene. I know your dog is big but if you are capable of handling him as you say then one of Ed's dominant dog collars should fit the bill.

Dog aggressive dogs are a pain in the arse but you can fix him with due dilligence. Good luck

Howard

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and doing any type of "take down" by which I assume you mean an alpha roll, on any type of dog, let alone a dog that weighs 200lbs, is a pretty dumb thing to attempt, especially if the dog is in a frenzy of aggression, it can't end well!

I have worked with many aggressive dogs and have used the Alpha Roll with much success. Even with 85lb and up dogs. The problem here is not my timing or technique, its the fragility of this particular dog.



B.B

It's not that we're doubting you on your ability, it's just that 200lbs is a far cry from 85+. Plus, the dog isn't yours, right? I could roll my dog with no problem; someone else would be quite sorry they ever had the idea. Could a dominant dog collar work with him? Since he's so heavy, maybe modify one so it's wider? That way it wouldn't choke him, but if you could get his front feet off the ground, perhaps it might help...??? <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> Wish I had the magic answer for you. I haven't used an ecollar in several years, but it might be worth a shot, since you're desperate. I still think total prevention is the way to go while you're on the way to fixing the problem, if such a thing is possible.