I have asked this question on another forum and although the answers I got were great I forgot to tell them something in the original post and feel a little silly going back correcting my mistake so I thought I would ask here. Phewww

OK Here goes.....
I have just rescued a 6 month old GSD. He is underweight and has a flea infestation which I have now sorted and he is gaining weight nicely.
He starts dog training in a week when the new class begins although I am doing a lot at home with him. I have bought a bite sleeve for him and he does it great because I want to train him in personnal protection.
I took him to see the trainer and she said he was lovely. Now last week (I have had him 3 weeks now) I took him and told her that he bites me and the children and all she could say was "well he didnt bite when you first got him did he?"
The problem is the other day my daughter was brnging him in the house and he bit her hard on the arm so he had a smack. now today he jumped on the table and stole my sons food off his plate, I got hold of the dog and smacked him hard. He bit me hard back. I then smacked him again and he bit me again. I dont want him to get the better of me and win the fight so I smacked again and he bit again realy quite vicious. I dont know what to do. I have only had him 3 weeks, I rescued him because he wasnt being fed properly and wasnt being looked after. he is a lovely dog if you dont correct him so I am stuck. I have has GSD before, quite a few but never one thats bit like this.

Now I know from advice on the other forum that smacking the dog is wrong and I regret doing it but I wanted a unbiast answer of what to do. Tonight for instance I slapped his bum joking and he bit me again. Also he knows sit and down and he does is REAL slow, eg. a sit can take 10 seconds a down longer, he does is sooo slow. He knows the cmmand and sometimes refuses to do it till I ask him 2 or 3 times then he does it. If I smack his bum (NOT HARD) and tell him to sit if he hasnt done it he will turn quite nasty and try to bite me.
I KNOW he doesnt see me as pack leader and I am working on this thanks to this site and the padcasts but wanted to know what else I can do.
Are ecollars the way t go?
Thanks Mike

No need to smack the dog! You should stop that ASAP! First of all he is 6mos let him be a damn puppy. Secondly you need to talk to Ed or get some of his DVD's. It sounds like you have no idea what you are doing with bite training and that can turn bad quickly as you have found out. You have taught him this behavior he didnt just start doing it for no reason. I am not a protection trainer so I will not go further because im not qualified but im sure one of the guys or gals will chime in. Good luck and dont smack the dog again!

Hey, Mike,

I didn't notice on first reading that this was a 6-month-old pup. But I read it again and I see that this is a puppy, doing what they do.

There are many LB videos I'd get if I were you, and you'll get a PM.

Do you have a DD collar and a pinch, and a drag lead?

This article is good.
http://www.leerburg.com/dominac2.htm If you scroll down to "When Dominance Starts," you'll see a good explanation of the difference between a dominant-aggressive dog and a puppy biting. Also, you'll see the steps to start taking now. But this is a puppy who is using his teeth the way they do. No smacking! Substitute a toy or chewy article and yell "Ouch" when he bites you. JMO from watching the way experienced handlers at our club deal with puppy-biting. (My dogs are young adults and a senior.)

And you don't seem to have the experience yet to be doing bite-work. I'd start reading and watching the videos you were PM'd about and quit the bite-work for now; I'd put the sleeve away for now. Seriously!

Good work, that you are asking and learning. You will get good answers here, and if you read Ed's articles at Leerburg.com and *get the videos,* you'll be ahead.

Mike, no more smacking & personally, I would NOT try to protection train a dog until you're handling prowess is at a MUCH higher level -- no offense, but you're creating a monster <:-(

You can start by reading these:

http://www.leerburg.com/groundwork.htm

http://www.leerburg.com/corrections.htm

And I would order these ASAP:

http://www.leerburg.com/120.htm

http://www.leerburg.com/301.htm

Hi and thanks for the replies. I am going to put the bite work on hold indefinately. I am obviously not ecperienced enough.
Thanks for the links I will stop smacking. I was actually told to do it by my soon to be trainer in France. i think I will rethink my trainer.

The problem I have is i rescued this dog from being put down. I hope what I have done in the past 3 weeks hasnt permanently damaged the dog and that i can regian its trust.

Sorry guys just doing what I was told, although its no excuse i was told that they should be hit harder the more they bte until i win. <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> Feel awful now SORRY <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Just one more thing I will have to save for the dvd's mentioned they are very expensive for me.

Good plan, I think, to find a different trainer. Good plan to put protection training on hold, too, IMO.

You can be reading Leerburg articles and listening to podcasts while you save for videos, and you can start right away to redirect the biting and to show your displeasure with a big "Ouch." <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

If you read this article (and you'll see a link to the poscast to listen to, too), you'll be off to a good start:
http://www.leerburg.com/philosophy.htm

Then, here's a list of articles:
http://www.leerburg.com/articles.htm

Then here are the podcasts:
http://www.leerburg.com/dogtrainingpodcasts.htm

There is one called "Training Puppies NOT TO BITE" -- just for you. :>

and here is the corresponding article:
http://www.leerburg.com/bitingpuppies.htm

You could start today listening to that podcast, and then all the rest (like pack leadership), and you'll be on the way to a good basic understanding.

I believe you can reverse the mistakes and that your puppy is not damaged. Start listening and reading right away; you will be glad you did.

And then you will learn even more from the videos! <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Your pup isn't damaged, just focus on making the puppyhood fun and happy, build your bond with the pup. Puppies bite, it's what they do, some dogs will get submissive if you smack em, others get pissy, all it does is escalate the situation or make your dog timid.

I'm not gonna say the French trainer who told you to smack your pup is a bad trainer, I don't know who he is, I know alot of trainers are pretty heavy handed with their dogs, even puppies, because they look for specific types of dogs who "can handle" their hard training... but it sure sounds like he is not the trainer for you.

The key to raising a good pup is patience. You need the patience to deal with stupid puppy behaviors that are inevitable, n this board will help you in the right direction. You need to guide your pup to practice correct behaviors so he understands what makes you happy. Don't yell at your pup or get angry at him either, just redirect. If you can't supervise the pup, your pup should be crated, it keeps you sane and keeps the pup out of trouble. My GSD is more than 2 years old n I still don't trust him out of the crate unsupervised if theres anything in the room that I know he might want to get into, n my pup would drive most people nuts just by the tone of her whining in the crate when she wants something <img src="http://www.leerburg.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> But patience is the key, you don't have to be domaneering and demanding respect from what is essentially just a baby that looks like an adult.

Mr. Arnold,

There doesn't need to be anything "heavy handed" about remote training with an e-collar, you know -- If you don't already have Ed Frawley's DVD on the subject, you might enjoy it a lot <:-)

Candi