Hi everyone,
My 12 week old Bullmastiff puppy has been having troubles with intermittent diarrhoea for the four weeks he has been with us.
When he first came to us, we assumed it was due to stress but after a few days took him to the vet. Who gave us a bottle of scourban, it took 5 days for the scourban to work and when his stools became solid, I called the vet to ask whether I should continue with it or stop. The vet told me to stop it.

A few days of solid stools followed, then a few days of pudding stools with mucous in them.
Then it miraculously cleared up and was solid again. This has been the path we are taking 3 days of normal stools then 3 -4 days of mucousy pudding stools.
He has been tested for bacteria and worms. He has been wormed repeatedly, so it is not worms. His stool sample was negative. I phoned the vet again today because it continues and it seems like the vet is really not sure what to do.

Ty is otherwise well, eating well, drinking loads and full of energy. He is a little boney but growing so quickly and gaining weight steadily at a rate of 1.5kgs a week or 3.3lbs.
He is currently being fed Royal Canin, (3 times a day getting one cup at each feed), giant puppy and I have my suspicions that it could be the problem (it is fairly high in fat) but I don't understand why the stools go from firm to soft and back again with no change in diet. I ended up giving him another dose of scourban this morning because I am so so sick of the pooing in the crate every night but the poor little guy can't help it. When his stools are firm he is fine with his crate training.

So any suggestions as to what I can do, I was thinking of trying acidopholus supplements, a natural diet (if I can afford it). He loves yoghurt but it seems to make the stools worse.
BTW, I am in Australia, so may not be able to get certain foods you can there but am willing to try just about anything. Thanks

 Quote: NikkiJarrett

.... My 12 week old Bullmastiff puppy has been having troubles with intermittent diarrhoea for the four weeks he has been with us. .... the vet..... Who gave us a bottle of scourban, it took 5 days for the scourban to work .... A few days of solid stools followed, then a few days of pudding stools with mucous in them. .... Then it miraculously cleared up and was solid again. This has been the path we are taking 3 days of normal stools then 3 -4 days of mucousy pudding stools. .... He has been tested for bacteria and worms. He has been wormed repeatedly, so it is not worms. ..... His stool sample was negative. .... I don't understand why the stools go from firm to soft and back again with no change in diet.....

I keep coming up with Giardia when I search for these symptoms and then I eliminate the parasites you have likely eliminated. Intermittent diarrhea is listed as a Giardia sypmtom.


http://www.thepetcenter.com/exa/gia.html

http://www.canismajor.com/dog/giardia.html

QUOTE: Diagnosis: Since diarrhea is a common symptom of intestinal infection, causes such as Salmonella and Campylobacter are generally ruled out before testing for Giardia is done. Direct microscopic inspection of feces is necessary to determine the presence of the protozoan. Examination of soft feces may reveal the active trophozoites, and cysts may be found in firm excrement. The number of cysts can vary from day to day, so best chances of detecting this form of Giardia lies in collecting samples over three days for a fecal flotation test or conducting individual tests every two or three days until at least three tests have been done. A quicker test does exist, but it is more expensive and requires an experienced technician to run. END QUOTE

Also, I agree with you about switching foods.

Here is a list of good kibbles:
http://www.leerburg.com/all-natural%20kibble.htm

Here, even better, is The Honest Kitchen:
http://www.leerburg.com/honestkitchen.htm

And here, best of all, is fresh raw food:
http://leerburg.com/feedingarawdiet.htm

IMHO, all of these choices are better than Royal Canin.

What is Scourban?

Scourban is a mixture of things, it is an anti-diarrhoeal mix, with a broad spectrum antibiotic and anti protozoan in the mix. This is why I would have thought that it was important to finish the course, rather than stop giving it as soon as Ty had a solid stool.
I just went to toilet him and discovered another VERY loose stool with a 'bubble' of mucous in it, it has me very worried. I have a vet appointment for Monday for him, to have another check up and the vet seems happy to wait until then as long as his gums are pink, he is active and eating and drinking. Quite obviously the vet is not the one cleaning up these nasty stools.
I just want my little guy to be well during this serious growing time. I think I will just drop in a stool sample for testing on my way to work tomorrow morning even though the receptionist told me they wouldn't test it until he had an appointment, ugh....he has been there so much, you would think they would judt test for giardoa and coccydia and follow up with me at Mondays appointment.

I think I would probably ask that the vet call back. You are the paying customer.

I'd probably ask why the fecal flotation could not be started immediately.

I know that lots of times the receptionist has learned a lot of basic info about animal care, but you are the person who decides whether the answers you're getting are sufficiant, or whether you would feel better speaking to the vet in a return call.

Good luck with the little guy!

Nikki, I'm going to second everything Connie just said. She is right.

There is no reason I can think of the vet couldn't immediately run a fecal float ahead of your appointment. Especially since you have already seen him for this problem. Keep calling until you speak to him and I would ask WHY you aren't being allowed to drop a sample off. He may not know what the receptionists are saying to clients (and he should be ticked off!)

I would also urge you to have a fecal culture done if you haven't already done so. It can be a tad expensive and it takes 72 hours but it uncovers a lot of things a float does not.

Good luck...you will get to the bottom of this!

Thanks, I had decided at the end of yesterday that I would turn up on the vets doorstep this morning with the stool sample but lo and behold, Ty suddenly reverted to perfectly solid stools???
It probably has more to do with the scourban than anything else but it is pointless to take the sample in now.
He is feeling great today, full of energy but I am waiting for the loose stools to start up again with no warning.
Thanks for the advice, I am almost sure he has either coccidia or giardia now and it is just a matter of getting the poor little guy onto the right medication.

 Quote: NikkiJarrett

Thanks, I had decided at the end of yesterday that I would turn up on the vets doorstep this morning with the stool sample but lo and behold, Ty suddenly reverted to perfectly solid stools???
It probably has more to do with the scourban than anything else but it is pointless to take the sample in now.
He is feeling great today, full of energy but I am waiting for the loose stools to start up again with no warning.
Thanks for the advice, I am almost sure he has either coccidia or giardia now and it is just a matter of getting the poor little guy onto the right medication.

Hi, Nokki,

I was 99% sure of this, but now I have researched it and I'm 100% sure: He does not have to be in a diarrhea stage for the test(s).

I think I'd take action now.

Good luck!

Thanks Connie, Ty has a vet appointment for Monday (it is Saturday here) when I will take in a stool sample and have it tested regardless of wether he is still doing firm stools which he is at this stage. It has been such a relief, 4 full days with firm poos, no cleaning diarrhoea from his crate.
Since the firm stools have been back, we have not had a single house breaking accident.
I will let you know how the vet appointment goes.

The stool sample I took in showed up negative for coccidia and giardia and appeared to be normal, though it did contain some food which was not properly digested.
The vet didn't want to put him on meds for coccidia just yet, even though she said that a dog can have it and the test may come up negative. She gave me a product called protexin, it is a probiotic mix with 7 different strains of flora in it. I have been giving him one sachet a day dissolved in a small amount of water. Ever since the first day I gave it to him, he has had NO diarrhoea. Every stool has been perfectly solid.
The vet wanted him to take a short course and see if it fixes the problem. He had his final sachet today, so we will see how he goes. If the diarrhoea returns, there is no harm in continuing the probiotic solution (which I am considering doing just for general wellbeing anyway).
The vet felt that his loose stools are not a sign of illness but just a sign of increased bowel motility which should improve as he gets older.
The vet kept asking me if he had any skin problems (I assume she was thinking of allergies), which he didn't. But now, over a week later, he has a little itchy patch under both 'armpits' It is summer here and VERY hot and I think it looks like chafing. I gave him bath last night and put some tea tree ointment on it and it is hard to find this morning but now I am wondering about an allergy???? Would an allergy causing loose stools go away because of the probiotic mix? or is the little rash just coincidence?
He is back to the vet next week for a follow up but I am just wondering if others think we need to get this rash checked out sooner than that?

hey nikki,
did all end up well with your pup? so did the scourban end up working? i m having some pbms with my pup that re very close to what you ve had.

here s the thread:
http://leerburg.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=268182

i would love it if you d drop me a line with your opinion on things..

thanks