hi
well i try to give you a idea on how we train our dog`s to out this is for the dogs we train sch/IPO with,not police or personal p dogs.

When the dog have a good calm grip on the sleeve and knows and like that part we go for training the out.
We always have groundwork on out with handler and tug so the dog knows the out.
But as we all know most dogs go inn too higher drive when on sleeve.


1phase we do hold and bark then let the dog to bite sleeve on a leash.
handler goes upp too the dog and have a tug inn his hand he gives the out command and the instant he let go off the sleeve the handler present`s the tug for the dog and give him x-mas.
This we do until the dog knows and work the out fast and consist ant.
this make him keep up his drive when told out.

2 phase still on lead we give the tug too the helper but now the helper does the reward with the tug . you have too look at the dog so some you can give a fight with the tug and some not. but i think you know your dog so it`s not a problem.


3 phase dog is off lead. we do the same thing reward from helper but now the handler can start working the out with more distance from the dog and helper. . we don't give the dog much fight with the tug now . so it should bee something like this .
bite sleeve-give command out -dog out`s-rewarded with tug by helper -comes back too handler-x-mas with handler

4 phase now the dog must be worked so he always keep focus on helper after the out. but this should not be a problem if you do 1-3 the right way.
i think we get dogs with fast out and they are very quick starting hold and bark after out.

so i hope this can be helpful too many people , with this system you don't need too go inn and correct your dog with the prong or e collar if you do this right from the beginning.

Do you peopel with some experience inn sch/ipo agree?
i like too get some thougt`s about this way too train the out

Trond I like your way of thinking,Motivation is a big plus in my books,only thing is convincing my helper , to test this method,also thinking about it, not sure my dog might not go into conflict over the two prey items, especially a dog that is very equipment focused, my dog loves anything that remoteley resembles a sleeve/sausage as long as it looks like it moves.How much success have you had personally, using this method or are you looking for people to try it out?
I hope other handlers, or helpers will put their thoughts in on this one.

What do you do if the dog has no interest other than the decoy?
Most mals i know say at one point f*** you and are more interested in getting the guy in the suit

Greetings

Johan

My thought exactly Johan, my Mal has a fantastic out, but he won't even flick an ear at the tug if the decoy is out. His recall and out is strictly obedience orientated. When he was younger we would have the decoy feed him a leg, and then on the out, BAM feed the other leg. At some point we start asking him for a "down" in between the bites, and before too long the dog associates the out and down with another bite. Simply start adding time between the out and the next bit...Voila! you've got a guard.

hello Michelle
Well inn our group we use this way too teach the out so im not looking for some one too try this out for me
we have a great success with this method and do this with moste of our dogs.
so with a little fantasy inn training and uusing this way i think you will get a great out.

you have to try this a couple of times on your dog so you get the feeling for how too feed him the tug after the out . it`s werry easy when you understand it.

the best thing about this way of out trainig are that the helper still is armed with the sleev whwn the dog comes back to you so you can direcytly send him for a new bite on the helper.
we do out and back too handler maybe 2or3 times with tug then next bite he win the sleev . ore do oute and rebibet wins sleev.
if you understand.
this had been mutch easyer too get down on writing if my english was not so bad.
i do under stand the tings you asking me but im not sure im giving the right explanation.
but i have tried

yes at one point you get the f**** . i see that but have in mind this is only one of 100000 way`s too teach the out.

This is a early way to teach out and when your dog know the out and if he dont out then he is disobidiant give him a small corection .
i Think all bite work are handeled in a obidiece way you have too tell your dog whats ok and not.

"i have too go to a english class so i can whrite understaning messages"

iI have no video of our out training but i think maybe i will make one at one of our training`s soo you can see for your self what i meean.
we are going too start a great mal out training in january so mabe i film him .

Trond,
I think it's a great method but for me (my dog) that would not have worked.I had to go to the e-collar.
But I can see for some dogs that would work.
I think if your dog is a "sports" dog only it's a good method to try but for dogs on the more serious side I think a reward from the helper would not be good.To give your dog a reward with a tug after he outs, for me that would not be something I would want as a foundation.I will tell you that in the blind ,I don't want my dog to look for me, but focus on the helper.If I use the method of giving him a tug after he outs, he might look at me anticipating the reward instead of focusing on the helper and do an automatic hold & bark. I don't want his eyes to move away from the helper.Does that make sense.Some dogs you have to be careful on how much reward you give them during the bite work outside of being the bite.I think motivational techniques are great but it depends on when and how much of it.Just a thought , none the less a good way of teaching the out for some.

Yes i totaly understand you.
Like i say in my first sentens this is not a woy to train out for police or pesonal protection dog`s this is for sport dogs only.
We dot whant our police or psd too even think that its a good bone in the bad guy soo it speak for it self.

we only handler feed the tug at the first training after that we helperfeed the tug so as you say get focus on the helper on the hold and bark.

when we put more agression in the work later we get a lot for free by this way of training. i think.
But im always looking for new ways to make this better and better.

Well I understand ,I'm sure later in the training and further in the bite work the out becomes automatic and the tug is less looked for ,I can see that.For me my male is more civil but I could see using tha tmethod on my younger male I am having an out issue with him and I'll try your method and see what I get out of it.

yes pleas do try and im shure you find it working .
i like too hear your opinion when you have tryed it