So I watched Ed's collar video the other night. I've got my Dogtra 1700 on order. No surprises on the DVD really, nothing I didn't expect to see, except for the whole 2-week collar preparatory thing. When we go through this period is the actual point to keep the dog from being scared of the collar, or is it to try to get the dog to disassociate the collar as part of the source of the correction?

I would call the first issue collar-shy and the second collar-wise. In either case I don't think it's going to make much difference on my dog.

Let's take the collar-wise part first. My dog, a rather low-drive, 7 month old, female Akita, is absolutely lead-wise, long-lead-wise and prong-wise. She knows exactly what she can and can't get away with in each modality. The prong doesn't make much difference to her, she may be low-drive but she's tough as nails. She's not afraid of any of it. In fact it's exactly the opposite. Lead=good. Long-lead=better! Flat collar=good. Prong=good. She is motivated by freedom and exposure to the world. All of the above means it's time to go outside, to play, or to the store, or to training, or whatever. And there will be people and dogs and stuff and that's just wonderful. Her attitude is "reward me with freedom, play and friends". She is far less food motivated and definitely not praise motivated, praise is merely a marker to her. I fully expect her to react similarly to the e-collar. If long-lead=better then I expect e-collar=great! "I can run and run and not trip over that stupid lead and if I make a mistake mom or dad will 'remind' me."

So I fully expect her to become collar-wise, or even "transmitter-wise". She will very quickly figure out in (I predict less than 2) days that the correction comes from me through the collar. I don't see any way around this. I'm not certain the two-week collar accommodation is needed with her. She may not understand the technology, but she will know that when I say "no" and nick her I was responsible for both the verbal and physical correction and that it only happens when she has That Particular collar on (it won't matter how many other collars she has on or in what combination).

What I am more concerned about is accidentally making her collar-shy. I definitely do not want to accidentally beat her up with the collar. Heaven knows I've already accidentally done that a couple of times with just a flat collar when she became overwrought or confused trying to follow a command while in a strong distraction. Nothing makes me feel lower than when I make that particular mistake and she loses her attitude for a time. I'm not petrified about a mistake on that level, she has not become shy of her flat or prong collars after all, but these e-collars are capable of a lot of energy and I really wish there was someway to lock-out settings above a certain level.

st

Scott,
If you are doing your training correctly and not using high levels of stem, then there should be no problems with using the collar. I have both an e-collar and a prong collar as well as several others, my dog loves it when I put on his e-collar, he does not have to have a drag line running behind him, gives him a bit more freedom at the same time he is very controllable with having the e-collar on. I think it is important for the two weeks of wearing the collar with no stimming happening, my dog wore his collar for about a month before he ever got his first stim. Is my dog collar wise, yes I think so as most become that way unless they always wear either the e-collar or a dummy one. I rotae mine on a regular bases but still think Max is smart enough to know which one is which. The biggest thing is to not over stim them/correct them, follow Ed's DVD and you and your dog will be fine. Always check before hitting the stim button, mine will some times go up or down if in my pocket so I always check before hitting the button. Be fair and consistant and your dog will learn very quickly that they by listening to you control the correction, just as they do onlead. My Max will get excited when he sees the e-collar, that means him and I are going out side and that he will not be dragging a line behind him, so the collar does not have to be a bad thing. You just have to make sure that you are consistant in what you are expecting from your dog. Also do not forget that in the beginning phases to use the long line. I did that and corrected with both the long line/prong and e-collar then slowly phased to just the e-collar correction with the long line, then no long line. Yes you do need to be careful and always check before the stim, Max is a hard dog so he recovers quickly. He requires about a level 7 to 8 for a real normal correction if that gives you any idea. Remember level 10 brings them off their feet, so Max has two levels that he is worked with, one being a lower level for basic OB , then a higher level for a real correction. IE chasing something and not re-calling.
BTW: The use of the e-collar has improved his re-call more than anything else. Very low level if he is just not coming when called and then higher when things are happening but he always comes. His re-call is also much faster as he runs to come to me out side, that is without stimming 99 percent of the time.
Always have a reward for the come and do not call them for anything bad!!!!

Scott,

I've come to believe that every dog is an individual, and no one knows your dog as well as you do. And as I have only one dog, I can only speak to my experience.

I bought a dummy collar and a Dogtra 1700 for my dog. I followed the instructions in Ed's video and rotated the dummy collar with his prong and flat collar, including having all three collars on at the same time. I also followed Ed's advice to give him a treat every time I removed or put on a collar. After two weeks of this I began experimenting with the e-collar.

At this time my dog associates the collars with treats. If I sit down with a collar in my hand, he sits as close to me as he can and waits for me to change collars, then gets his treat. I still rotate the e-collar, dummy, prong and flat collar, and I always leave the e-collar on at least 30 minutes before and after using it in a training session.

So far, I think my dog associates the nick with a correction when the distraction level is low. But ratchet up the distraction level and I'm not sure he understands where the nick is coming from or why he is getting it.

He did start to show some curiosity about the remote, but I don't think he has figured out the association between the remote and the nick.

As my dog, and Jay's, illustrate, they are fully capable of making associations between the collar and what happens after. Jay's dog has figured out putting on the collar means going outside. My dog has figured out putting on a collar means getting something good to eat. I think that is the whole point of Ed's advice, rotate the collars, mix up what you do after putting the collars on, and maybe your dog won't become wise to the e-collar.

Good luck. I'll be interested to read what your experience is.

Du Double post removed now :-).
Jay

Scott,

1) You WANT her to know the stim, when necessary, comes from YOU.

2) But the whole POINT of e-training is to make her "voice command reliable" so that she will almost NEVER need any stim whatsoever.

3) Two great things about using a remote trainer are:

A. You just correct to the level of obedience using low stim ONLY, so there will be NO accidental "beating up" with an e-collar.

B. Your dog will EARN her freedom by being dependably obedient to your VOICE commands.

4) My Akita & my Borzoi always wear their e-collars when we go out, as a "fail-safe" (even while onlead, just in case of an equipment failure).

5) Please DO follow Ed's 2-week collar conditioning program (!!!) because you want the dog to know the correction comes from you, but you DON'T want her to automatically know which collar delivers the stim -- My Akita wears multiple collars all at once while I'm working her offlead (the remote, her Dominant Dog Collar, plus a prong) for the whole purpose of NOT getting wise to a remote trainer...

My girl's hard as nails AND she's very high-drive (plus being dog-aggressive & intensely predatory!) but she's perfectly obedient offlead, thanks entirely to her e-collar, virtually never needing ANY stim at all <:-)

Thanks for all the encouragement, people. I will certainly let you know how it all goes!