If your program selects narc dogs from animal shelters, etc., how long do you observe/test them (aside from time spent testing their ball drive) for other behavioral issues {aggression - dog/human; unwarranted fear of new environments/objects; etc.)? Something I've seen/heard is that shelter dogs are sometimes so "numbed" in the shelter environment that they won't exhibit those fear/aggression problems. It takes days for them to relax enough for specific problems to appear. Do you sign the dogs out on a "temporary release" basis for several hours? Days? If my observation about "numbing" is correct, what behaviors do you look for at the shelter to detect the dog's latent problems?

Also, on average, what's the ratio of the # of dogs that you look @ in the shelter versus the # that you actually take outside the shelter for further testing? Or that you finally turn into working narc dogs?

Thanks & Merry Christmas,
Jim Greenway

Jim,

One important thing to remember is that dogs are in a shelter for a reason. The main being behavioural issues. Owners for the most part create these problems so you cant really hold that against them if you do find a prospect. If you take a dog in and give it everything it needs, including structure and rules to be followed then I imagine you wont have any problems unless the dog has been severly abused or is a total nerve bag. If this is the case then you dont need to spend alot of time with these dogs to figure this out before you adopt it.

As far as the ratio....I've tested quite a few but haven't found one yet that is gonzo like I want. Seems like the off breeds have more of what I want but cant use them.

Howard

Jim,

I have been fortunate in obtaining single purpose detector dogs from shelters, rescues and pounds. Over the past 10 years I've placed in service well over 25. In fact, 1 lab, that will retire in 07 was placed in service in 1995. My selection of dogs from pounds etc, is no different that if I'm buying from a vendor. I have cultivated a very good rapport with the shelters in a 5 county area surrounding my location. I've shown the animal control workers, that really care, basically what I'm looking for and they call all the time with prospective dogs. Usually they are labs, goldens, the occasional GSD, one Rottie and one mixed terrier (it greatly resembled a pittie, but I'm not allow to have pitties). When I test them, it's away from the facility, on all floor surfaces, up and down different types of stairs, with other dogs in the area. The percentage of "looked at" versus selection is very small. Maybe 1 in 50. But for what I get out of that 1, it's worth it to me. I have never found a dual purpose, patrol/detector, however the Rottie may well do it. I intend to find out in February. Once tested for the required behavior, the final step is a full physical, including x-rays. They are out there, they are few and far between, but with work, a clear set of objectives they can be found.

DFrost

 Quote: howard knauf

One important thing to remember is that dogs are in a shelter for a reason. The main being behavioural issues.

I'm sorry, but I need to disagree. I helped teach agility classes at the local ASPCA for a year and currently work at a privately-run shelter. The number one reason dogs are surrendered in the United States is because of the family moving. The number two reason is "landlord problems" which fits into the same category. These dogs are often fantastic companions, they were just stuck with nitwit owners that consider them throw-away pets. In fact, "biting" is the only behavioral issue on the "top ten reasons pets are relinquished" list. (Biting probably translates to teething puppies or bored, chewing dogs in a lot of these cases, I'd bet.) If I had a cookie for every time I read a shelter card at the ASPCA and it said "My family was moving and the landlord said I couldn't come, too..." I would be one fat son of a gun. I can also vouch for this in the shelter I work at. "So why's he here?" "Family's moving." I have this conversation --all the time--.

Top Ten list: http://www.petpopulation.org/topten.html

 Quote:

The National Council on Pet Population Study and Policy Regional Shelter Survey identified moving as the most often cited of 71 reasons for relinquishing dogs and the 3rd most common reason for relinquishing cats.

http://www.petpopulation.org/Movingcharaceristics.pdf

Katherine,

I stand corrected. Number two then, Eh? I guess if I turned my dog into the pound and was questioned as to why, then I guess it would be easier to blame something or someone else. Not everyone wants to be looked at as a bad person for not properly taking care of their dog so it is easier to lie. I'm sure not everyone lies but I imagine alot do. I made the statement because of what I've seen as well as information from a fellow officer/ex military handler who lives on the premises of our local pound and has contact with most the dogs there.

Then again...if folks from Mass would quit moving to Florida they could keep their dogs. Just Kidding.

Howard

As I said, the only behavioral problem on the top 10 is "biting" which is #9 on the list. Keep in mind that dogs relinquished for euthanasia are counted in these statistics (and a whole hell of a lot of dogs are relinquished specifically with a euthanasia request). If I wanted my dog to be put down and fast, I'd probably say she was biting people or killing cats or make up a better story than "I'm moving, so the dog should be put down."

The difference between a shelter and the local pound is that the pound will mostly be animal control dogs that were picked up on the street. Dogs from the streets often have acquired bad traits, or were kicked out because of their behavioral issues. This may be why your friend would lead you to believe behavioral issues are a top priority. (Likewise, a lot of dogs in shelters have behaviors that, when taken out of high-stress situations, completely disappear.)

Point taken. For the record, it is a shelter where adoption is the primary goal. Of course there are animal control prisoners and dogs dropped off in cages in the dark of night by people who dont want to be confronted by staff workers. I didn't mean to imply that our pound was hotshot happy.

Howard

DF: sounds as if you have a defined set of criteria that you're looking at here (stairs, variable floors etc.) for single-purpose narc dogs. Have you ever written them down? Any chance I could get a copy? Jim

Jim,

While I do have a specific criteria I adhere too, it based more on experience than actual environment. While it's certainly important, in my opinion, to test a dog of floors, stairs, around vehicles, near highways etc, there is more to it than that. It's like trying to describe what you are looking for in a dog that retrieves. It's more than the dog just bringing back the object, but the intensity. I have many people call me to see if I'm looking for dogs. The first question I ask them is, will the dog run past his food dish (with food in it) to retrieve a thrown ball/toy etc. Like many of the "older" dog trainers I know, we tend to be a computer illiterate lot. We also, while maintaining meticulous records of training, have probably done little about writing down how we do it. My best advice, is test them in every situation you can think of, and try to determine, do you see a working dog in the making.

DFrost

Just wanted to ask a follow on question on this thread. I haven't had a lot of time to screen dogs since I originally posted the question. So far, I've actually taken only about a dozen dogs - mostly Labs - out of the kennel runs to test. I figured that I'd see at least one dog with some interest, even if it wasn't strong enough to be selected. I'm not seeing much at all.

I think it might be the process I'm using. I'm doing this at the shelter. I leash the dog, take him/her out of the run, and walk it around a bit in the indoor kennel area. The dogs always have this "let's get out of here" behavior. If the dog isn't shy, I'll walk the dog outdoors to relieve itself. Once that's done, I'll bring out the tennis ball, squeaky toy, etc. in the parking lot to see if there's any interest. I usually only see an unfocused "going in six directions at once"/"just glad to be out of the shelter" attitude, with nearly no interest in balls or toys. Whole process takes 10 minutes or less (usually 5-7).

Am I doing this wrong? Should I take more time for the dogs to relax before bringing out the toys? Should I take them away from the shelter to test them? Jim