I've posted a copy of this in General Discussion as well and I plan to email Ed the same.

I'm feeling pretty down lately guys. My GSD is what Ceaser Milan would call a "Red Line" dog and he doesn't seem to be getting any better. I feel that I don't have too many cards left to play and may have to think about having him returned to his breeder or failing that put down.

This will be a long post, but I really would like to put out as much information as I can to get your advice.

Background:

My Search
In January 2005, I became interested in purchasing a German Shepherd dog as I was about to enter my final year of law school and thought that I had a nice window of opportunity to train one properly due to my lax schedule.

However, outside of the fact that I knew I wanted a German Shepherd I didn't know much about them other than what they looked like. I purchased some books form a local bookstore and read some old books from my local university library on the German Shepherd. In March of 2005, I went to an AKC all breed dog show that included many events like agility. After speaking with different breeders of American and German blood lines I became excited about the prospect of doing some type of competition with a German blood line GSD.

While at the AKC show I met a nice woman who had a booth set-up for search and rescue dogs with pictures of German Shepherds. I asked her if she could recommend any good breeders and she provided me with a name and telephone number of a man who had supplied a couple of their dogs.

Best Intentions
The Breeder was what many would refer to as a backyard breeder. He had four German Shepherds in a simple, but clean and nice kennel. The man was very nice and it is through him that I learned about this website, schutzhund, and of the man who is now my trainer.

The Breeder agreed that he would reserve for us one of the puppies out of his next litter that he had informed us he was breeding to meet the demand he had from others who wanted GSDs. His dogs were well behaved both the sire & dam and appeared in good health. In fact, both dogs had very respectable pedigrees available on http://www.pedigreedatabase.com. However, neither the sire or the dam of my puppy had a single title among them, but I was told the sire was being trained for volunteer search and rescue work.

A Hopeful Start
By September of 2005 my GSD was born and in November of that year my girlfriend and I took him home. He was cute and we had gone out of our way to prepare for his arrival. We had purchased Leerburgs DVD "Your Puppy 8-Weeks to 8-Months," and all the wiz bang puppy stuff we could think of including a nice crate and a filtered water bowl.

Right away I took him out as often as I could to the near by shopping complex and park. However, as winter got colder it was rare to see people out and about making it very hard to socialize. Looking back I should have taken him by car to more busy areas and I did a few times, but not often enough to have an impact.

Training
Before we even picked up our GSD we had watched a schutzhund trial and from many unrelated people including our breeder, a police officer, and breed tattoo warden had heard the same name in trainers come up again and again. It took me three months to track the man down and when I did he already knew what I had.

My trainer is very experienced and a good man who has been training dogs for years. He took one look at my dog and didn't think we had what it took. In fact, he told me that most clubs would tell us to hit the road with a puppy like that (he was only 5 months old).

Despite our trainer's reservations he agreed to take us on and we began to see some incredible improvement. Our puppy who at first was so afraid of everyone and everything was able to focus and perform obedience very well. As the months progressed we did walk through the group stuff using positive training methods and then reinforcing with corrections after a period of positive motivational training.

However, while my GSD became very excellent at tracking, and is able to perform well when on the Schutzhund field I feel we have more covered up his problems rather than solved them.

The REAL BIG Problem
My dog is now 15 months old and weighs a good 70-74 lbs. and although I love him to death he is a dangerous dog. He is very anti-social to the point where the last time I tried to take him through a shopping area for socialization he became utlra violent. I was honestly afraid that the police or animal control would be called on us he was so aggressive.

I honestly don't know what to do anymore. It seems like the more I try to train him the more I just cover-up what is a real dangerous dog that can be well behaved one moment and snap the next into a violent dog.

My girlfriend has scheduled him for a neutering on January 5th, and I've been considering an electric collar, but again I think that really I may not be able to fix this problem. I'm way out of my depth on this and while I want to keep my beautiful dog that I love I can't risk having him attack someone or turn on me or my girlfriend.

What should I do? I'm afraid if I send him back to the breeder the breeder will either not accept him back or be unable to place him. I think he would pose a serious danger to all, but the most experienced dog handlers. I have this real fear that in the end whether I send him to the breeder or do it myself he'll have to be put down.

Should I keep trying to train him?

Should I see about using an electric collar for corrections when he displays aggression?

Will the neutering help?

Or...should I just call it quits and have him put down?

I don't know what to do. I feel like I've really failed my dog and now he is going to be the one who pays for it. I’ve been through a lot in my life, but this by far one the most difficult things I’ve ever been through

---

"Utility and intelligence." Rittmeister Max Emil Friedrich von Stephanitz.

Oh dear

Have you looked at the fearful dog section for tips/techniques for dealing with a dog like yours? Can you have him under absolute control at ALL times?

I always have him in a prong collar and on a leash when we are outside. I suppose I could get a muzzle for him, but I feel like I have to keep my gaurd up all the time with him and it its taking its toll on me.

Hi James,

Firstly, don't lose hope yet and at this sensitive time be careful of the advice you will receive. Before doing anything else I would echo doing further searches on Leerburg's site on dealing with aggression to establish in your own mind what type of aggression you are dealing with.

I would also highly recommend Leerburg's DVD titled dealing with dominant and aggressive dogs. I gave this DVD as a gift to a friend who was in a similar situation to you and it has solved his problems, however it took commitment to working slowly and in a staged approach. The link is as follows:

Leerburg Dominant Dog DVD

You might want to hint to your girlfriend that the DVD would make a great New Years present, also confirm with her before marriage that her suggested solution to your dog's behaviour will not be applied to you as a means of solving any disagreement between the both of you in the future

Best wishes for Christmas and good luck.

Regards
Brice

James,
Please - by the rules you can only post the same topic in *one* area.
I had to nuke the other copy, it's too hard ( not to mention confusing ) to have the same topic spread across different areas of the forum and get meaningful replies.

Will Rambeau
Moderator

James,
First off - have you identified exactly what sends him off into the aggressive behavior?
Identifying the trigger ( or triggers ) is the first step towards coming to an understanding of what's going on.

Why does having the same post in different sections make a difference in the problem that the person is having? I like this board and I understand that there is basically a section for every type of post, but...... to get the most exposure when you are having serious issue it only seems reasonably that you could post the same question to a couple of different sections????

Anyway, I would like to help with your problem but like was said before, If you want help on the internet you need to be alot more specific on exactlyl what the problem is. And if you're working with a trainer already..... what are his recommendations?
Sounds like fear issues to me, and going to a schuthund trainer may have brought these issues out even worse. You're right, you could be in a very bad situation if you have been training a fearful that biting humans is good. Either way, what does your trainer say??? What kind of trainer is he? Why can't you put the dog in a down when it behaves that way towards people to try and teach the dog that things are fine? From some of your letter, I think that deep down you are afraid of the dog.... I could be wrong but that is what I take. If you are afraid of what the dog is doing you could be projecting some fear or other problems. Anyway, be more descriptive in the problems or consult the trainer you have already been seeing. If you doubt your trainer then at least let us know what he thinks. From what I have gathered already you talked him into taking a fearful dog and you may have created a confident, fearful dog or a dog that was fearful before and now is confident that his fear is justified. We also need to know how far his protection training went.