I have a couple of questions for you guys concerning my four year old giant schnauzer, Arf. I have always viewed training him as obedience=boring; random stupid stuff=fun. Fortunately he has not adopted the same outlook and is quick to learn what I am willing to teach. Arf is not a particularly well-trained dog but he is a reasonably well-behaved one. After finding this site and reading how much all of you (and your dogs) enjoy training, it’s got me thinking about a lot of the things we have been missing out on.

I am planning to get the Basic Dog Obedience DVD as soon as I pay off a couple of other things, so while we wait I have been trying to work on some of the things he already knows. He is pretty solid in the house and backyard; however, not so much at the park, etc. My problem, I guess, is that I can’t get him to play in public places and he is not very interested in food either (fresh sausage, not dried icky stuff). At home, and I’m not exaggerating, he could tug until his heart gave out and is the most food-obsessed dog I’ve ever met. I’m a very quiet person and I worry that with the all the distractions, maybe I’m not interesting enough to keep his attention. I don’t want his training to be just a series of corrections, though.

Am I hopeless as a trainer if I’m too boring to keep my dogs attention?
Are there exercises we can do to improve this?
Is he simply lacking drive? If so, why not in the house as well?
Should I wait until I have the video and just start from scratch?

Thanks to anyone who reads this!

Lindsey,

If you already have a good base for obedience, maybe you should consider the Building Drive and Focus DVD instead. Even though it is somewhat geared toward training working dogs I think it would help with Arf too, since he'll tug hard at home but not outside in the "world".

Something you can also do to increse his food drive is to fast him a bit. Either do not feed him the night before or only give him a half ration or something. This will increase his desire to work for treats at the park.

 Quote: Lindsey Oldfield

I have a couple of questions for you guys concerning my four year old giant schnauzer, Arf. I have always viewed training him as obedience=boring; random stupid stuff=fun. Fortunately he has not adopted the same outlook and is quick to learn what I am willing to teach. Arf is not a particularly well-trained dog but he is a reasonably well-behaved one. After finding this site and reading how much all of you (and your dogs) enjoy training, it’s got me thinking about a lot of the things we have been missing out on.

I am planning to get the Basic Dog Obedience DVD as soon as I pay off a couple of other things, so while we wait I have been trying to work on some of the things he already knows. He is pretty solid in the house and backyard; however, not so much at the park, etc. My problem, I guess, is that I can’t get him to play in public places and he is not very interested in food either (fresh sausage, not dried icky stuff). At home, and I’m not exaggerating, he could tug until his heart gave out and is the most food-obsessed dog I’ve ever met. I’m a very quiet person and I worry that with the all the distractions, maybe I’m not interesting enough to keep his attention. I don’t want his training to be just a series of corrections, though.

Am I hopeless as a trainer if I’m too boring to keep my dogs attention?
Are there exercises we can do to improve this?
Is he simply lacking drive? If so, why not in the house as well?
Should I wait until I have the video and just start from scratch?

Thanks to anyone who reads this!

My vote: Yes, watch the video, and try to incorporate two very important points into your ob work: (1) short, frequent sessions, and (2) motivational.

Obedience really can be fun. It is to me, and I have taught enough motivational (which does not mean that I don't correct) ob to others to know that it can be to anyone who doesn't approach it as a chore.

I agree with Bradley, too, about enhancing the desire for food rewards at first by using excellent treats (bits of hot dog or bacon might really do the trick, and both can be purchased in no-chemical form) or by starting with a hungry dog.

When ob is solid (including distraction proofing), you might like to move on to more fun stuff.


I think you will like the video. It's a fun one, and the fun will rub off. JMO!

Oh, editing to say that I too would recommend Building Drive. But I really like the Basic Ob as kind of a basic building block, especially with an adult non-working dog.

In the basic obedience video, (while discussing the DOWN) Ed mentions fasting to get a non-food-motivated dog interested in your treats.

He says to fast the dog for a day, then train the next day with some irrisistable treats.

Hi Lindsey!! I third the motions from Bradley and Connie to consider the "Building Drive and Focus" DVD. The methods presented are such a cornerstone in terms of training methodology here at http://www.JolietSchutzhund.com.

I can't even tell you how many folks I've talked to in a situation like yours... "my dog is NUTS for the ball/tug/food/whatever in my own back yard, but doesn't seem to care about it anywhere else..."

As the official "stage mom" for Joliet Schutzhund, I want to share a real life story with you about Max and his dog Dante. They came here for the first time in the early summer - with questions very similar to yours. Max is interested in SchH, but had no expert guideance. Dante is a working line GSD, but probably not the greatest genetic potential to start with - and then add to that many "newbie handler" mistakes.

The first time Max and Dante came here, Dante put his hackles WAY up, and Max "showed" Dave that way too much correction had been used in the first year of Dante's life for OB. Dave is always honest with people, and did NOT give Max high hopes for Dante - in fact he gave low hopes.

Max has followed Dave's advice to the letter every Saturday he trains here. Motivation, motivation, motivation. Confidence building X 10. Max and Dante keep coming, and they keep making progress as a team. (ala the Bernard Flinks methods)

We used to respect Max for learning the most he can with his current dog - and looking towards dog 2 someday to ever see a trial field. That still might be the case. But holy cow - every time we witness what Max and Dante have done together "during the last week" we all start wondering if bigger things might just be possible for Max and Dante.

However this story turns out in the end, it's a GREAT story about the devotion Max has to Dante, and that Dante has to Max. They are having INCREDIBLE fun together, and IMO that's the most important part.

I believe that training towards Schutzhund goals is an incredible opportunity for the dog and handler team - whether you get to the field together or not. I am very sure that both Max and Dante's relationship has improved using Dave Blanks methods, which closely match Bernard Flink's methods, no matter where they end up.

When I was first introduced to "SchH" through the show line GSD world, it was a pressure filled environment that was only about a fast track to titles. Now that I respect "real" titles more, I can relax and enjoy the journey - wherever that journey leads with each dog in my family.

Order the video (Building Drive and Focus) and enjoy!!

Best Wishes to Lindsey and Arf,

Beth

Amen, amen, amen! I haven't trained a lot of dogs, but I know exactly how you feel. With my last dog, I did AKC obedience only. We got pretty far, but my dog got more and more bored as time went on, and I know darn well it was my fault, but I didn't know what to do about it. Then one day I was at a trial and all of us AKC only folks had the pants beaten off us by one lady and her GSD who did both Schutzhund and AKC. I was astounded at how much fun her dog was having. So different from all the others, even the top scoring ones. I'm training my current dog much differently than my last one, doing both Schutzhund and AKC, with a huge dose of Bernhard Flinks focus & drive. My dog LOVES obedience this way, and it's a hoot for me, too. It took a little while, but that ball on a string has now taken on magic qualities, and there isn't any situation it doesn't get his attention in (except the occasional it's-hot-let-me-stay-in-this-pond-a-bit-longer). He's so enthusiastic about retrieving the dumbbell, so he can get his ball as a reward, that my biggest problem right now is holding him back as he barks and lunges to go after it. Well, okay, we also have a problem with him forging, which also comes from "I know you have my ball, now give it to me!"

For extra fun, and to give us something to do on rainy days, or fill up a free 5 minutes here or there, I also bought a book on fun tricks to teach, such as crawl, head down, say your prayers, etc. It gives me more opportunity to interact with my dog, and I believe actually teaches him to learn. I can see the wheels turning in my dog's head as he tries to figure out each new thing, and he looks so pleased with himself when he gets it.

So forget your "obedience is boring and so am I" thoughts. Don't get discouraged -- relax, have fun, get the drive & focus video, and remember to smile, because the smile will go straight down the leash.

p.s. To echo Connie, "short and sweet". I have never worked my dog for more than 10 minutes, and that includes frequent breaks / releases / rewards.

Lots of great advice- thank you everyone!

I am definately going to get both videos as soon as possible. Until then, I think I'll concentrate on targeting and "leave-it's" in the house where he's excited about working with me. He has a habit of using his tragets as batting practice, so if it isn't heavy enough he just knocks it across the room with his paw. He's very proud of himself, too. Maybe it's easier for him in the house, as well, since we usually go on commercial breaks- it probably drags outdoors because we don't accomplish anything to end positively on...
I would like to do Shutzhund with my next dog (couple of years down the road yet) so I'd like to learn as much as I can with my Arf.

Thanks again and keep 'em coming!

Edited because I can't get my grammar good

 Quote: Lindsey Oldfield

.... it probably drags outdoors because we don't accomplish anything to end positively on...
.... Thanks again and keep 'em coming! ...

Here is something that works well for me: Every session (for example, when I am planning to introduce a new command) begins and ends with a command the dog knows for sure and will do right and will trigger praise. Start and end on high notes. And as mentioned, the best thing for me is to make it so short that the dog is eager to do it again next time.

Also, I like to incorporate training into everything in some way. To cement the recall, I call the dog every time something good is going to happen. Call the dog to eat; call the dog to go in the car or for a walk; call the dog to play or to sit and be petted. The recall almost trains itself this way; why would the dog not come when every time you call, a good thing happens? (I never call the dog for a correction, and it's a long time, when I have a very solid recall, before I call the dog for something he's not fond of.)

I also always end a command-teaching session before either of us can be frustrated, and before I can be tempted to maybe change the tone of my command voice.

So, when you say that you don't accomplish anything to end positively on -- end on something tried-and-true with praise and a figurative high-five before you go home.

Lindsey

Get the video , it's agreat one,but I have an easy answer for you,
COME OUT to our club and we can help you , and you'd be surprised how things will change.You'll leave with lots of exciting ideas.
AND IT'S FREE!!!!