 Puppy thinks "Stay" means "Down"
#123412 - 01/04/2007 03:33 PM |
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I am the trainer in the house for my almost 6 month old pup. He knows "sit" "down" "come to me" and "watch me" and will follow all of these commands pretty well provided there aren't too many distractions. I'm trying to take the training slow and not expect more or do more than a very young dog can handle.
My fiancee told me recently that he "taught" our pup "stay" and proceeded to demonstrate this to me. What he actually did was teach our pup that "stay" means "down" 
So now, I'm trying to introduce the the concept of "stay" with markers and the verbal command and my dog lies down every single time. What should I do? Use a different command for "stay" or try to untrain what he has (wrongly) learned? I am not an experienced trainer so the latter option seems more difficult for someone like me to do.
Any advice is greatly appreciated, especially if he's still too young to learn this particular command.
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 Re: Puppy thinks "Stay" means "Down"
[Re: Sarah Morris ]
#123414 - 01/04/2007 03:54 PM |
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Hi Sarah. I'm a newbie at all of this, so never mind me!! 
The "stay" as a follow up command to sit, down, whatever is not used around here. "Sit" means "sit" until there is a different command, "down" means "down" until a different command, etc.
The only place for the "stay" command is in the context of SchH training, for the stand out of motion - where the dog is heeling, and is then asked to "stand" (or stay, or some other word) while the handler moves on.
This was a foreign concept to me at first. What logically grabbed me is this. When you ask you dog to "sit," how is that different in terms of your expections from the command "sit/stay?" Aren't they supposed to stay in the sit anyway, until you give some other command? If you only gave a "sit" command as opposed to "sit/stay" - how would the behavior you expect differ?
LOL - I was quite relieved when I learned that fewer *words* might actually be more effective. That has been true for us...
...best wishes!!
Beth
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Re: Puppy thinks "Stay" means "Down"
[Re: Sarah Morris ]
#123415 - 01/04/2007 03:57 PM |
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If this is a working bred GSD: He is probably getting confused - only one of you should be doing the training & comanding at this stage. For now, jsut work on the things the pup knows, make sure he knows them really well (build confidence). Give him a little time before you progress to the next thing. Keep it all a fun game, no corrections at this age. I think your dog may be confused from too many people telling him to do all these different things. You have time on your side, don't get impatient! For now, forget about the stay command & tell your boyfriend "Thanks, but no thanks, I am the trainer"!
What Beth said is right. The dog is not allowed to break a command on his own, so no "stay" unless down or sit out of motion.
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Re: Puppy thinks "Stay" means "Down"
[Re: susan tuck ]
#123416 - 01/04/2007 04:08 PM |
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That is a good example of why only one person should train a dog at a time... lol. I agree that the sit means sit until I tell you to...by using a release word, like "ok". That way you eliminate the stay command.
You can retrain the command by placing the verbal cue immediatly before the physical one. Say "stay" then immediately Hand signal a stay- hold the leash and do not allow the dog to lay when you say "stay". Always release the stay with the release word (like "that's it" or "ok".)Pull the dog out of the stay when you give the release word. Training in the beginning of the stay command should just be duration only anayway so you won't need to worry about not being there to keep him from laying.
He might give you a few confusing looks but encourage and jackpot reward the first few times. then on the down command.
Retrain with the down with the verbal "down" as if he never learned the command in the first place. Using the clicker will help this fix this mix-up quicker.
Top Paw Training: serving Canyon Lake & New Braunfels, San Antonio to Austin. |
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Re: Puppy thinks "Stay" means "Down"
[Re: Alison Mayo ]
#123417 - 01/04/2007 04:17 PM |
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If this is going to be a schutzhund dog, you would never use a "stay" command, so why bother with another verbal cue plus a hand signal? To me it is no different than saying "sit, sit & I mean sit" which would be what, a triple command?
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Re: Puppy thinks "Stay" means "Down"
[Re: susan tuck ]
#123418 - 01/04/2007 04:24 PM |
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I agree sit means sit down means down etc. until given release comand. I use stay when wanting dog to remain in position for exstended period of time where he only has to stay in pposition not totally focus on me. That means whatever position. This is not introdused until the dog knows for sure without a doubt with or without distractions all other position comands.
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Re: Puppy thinks "Stay" means "Down"
[Re: Mitch Kuta ]
#123425 - 01/04/2007 04:49 PM |
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Mike A.
"I wouldn't touch that dog, son. He don't take to pettin." Hondo, played by John Wayne |
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Re: Puppy thinks "Stay" means "Down"
[Re: Mike Arnold ]
#123492 - 01/05/2007 12:12 AM |
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To all...
Thank you very much for your advice and encouragement! I'm really quite relieved to know I don't have to teach a separate "stay" command but rather make sure he learns the commands AND the release. And I do like the idea of using a hand gesture for emphasis, if needed.
Fiancee has also gotten the message that only one person trains the dog.
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Re: Puppy thinks "Stay" means "Down"
[Re: Sarah Morris ]
#123874 - 01/09/2007 12:39 AM |
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Hi Sarah,
When training a confused puppy there are several possibilities.
1) If the puppy is used to “down” following the “sit” command and is possibly not thinking and listening to the command but following the pattern that they are used to. Such as saying (sit then down). The solution is to work on “sit” in one session and then take a break. Work on “down” next without cueing or luring the sit command first. Just say “down” and lure from the standing position in to the down.
2) If the dog can sit and down without luring and can do with just with voice or hand commands, the dog just may be some confused. For example if you use hand signals, and you use an open palm sweeping down for “down” the dog may confuse an open palm for stay that is moving towards them as the same. Just change the hand signal or exaggerate the motions so they are different enough to distinguish a difference. I would also use a negative marker like “wrong” so the dog can offer a different behavior to get rewarded.
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Re: Puppy thinks "Stay" means "Down"
[Re: Aki Yoshikawa ]
#125797 - 01/22/2007 11:51 PM |
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Reg: 11-22-2006
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Loc: NY (Near Syracuse)
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Kind of have the same problem... Been working wiht my G.F's dog (we live together so it's basically "our" dog, but I bought it for her) We both work with her and teach the same actions to Bella. For instance we both work on "SIT" the same day. She does a few of the cute things like "turn around" and roll-over, but now when we start to do any type of training (especially where there is treats involved, can't seem to hide the scent from her) she immediately does a "turn-around", or a "roll-over".
I just ignore that action and command another different one?? Right thing to do as far as ignoring the anticipation that she does??
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