Mike Quill wrote 01/27/2007 01:34 PM Raw as a treat #126540 - 01/27/2007 01:34 PM
Mike Quill Webboard User Reg: 01-24-2007 Posts: 6 Loc: Offline	Ok I posted yesterday about the dog eating her poop. I began to read up on nutrition and I'm switching to Innova dog food. I saw how they can eat raw eggs with the shell so I gave her one last night and she loved it. I would like to try and treat with some more raw food and see how she reacts. Is it OK to just throw a couple of raw chicken wings in with her dinner and see how she does, or could this hurt her?
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Amber Morgan wrote 01/27/2007 01:38 PM Re: Raw as a treat [Re: Mike Quill ] #126541 - 01/27/2007 01:38 PM
Amber Morgan Webboard User Reg: 10-18-2006 Posts: 1849 Loc: St. Louis, MO Offline	It's my understanding that if you're doing "mixed" feeding, as I am, that you shouldn't feed raw and kibble at the same meal. So I feed raw in the morning and kibble at night (kibble stays in the stomach longer so he's not a spastic for food in the am this way). I also feed Innova as the kibble, and he occasionally eats his poop. There is no guaruntee that anything will be the magic cure, unfortunately, and there probably won't be until they find out for sure why the dogs do it! Most dogs outgrow it, if that makes you feel better! Carbon
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Guest1 wrote 01/27/2007 02:14 PM Re: Raw as a treat [Re: Amber Morgan ] #126544 - 01/27/2007 02:14 PM
Guest1 Webboard User Reg: 07-17-2002 Posts: 860 Loc: Iowa Offline	I can't say I ever came to terms why "kibble" should be fed seperately from raw stuff or why it stays in the stomach longer or (if it does) why that even matters. I've fed both at the same time, and I can't say I've noticed a distinct segregation of matter coming out the other end, or a delayed time of arrival. Of course, I've never fed crap kibble, so maybe I'm missing something. Point is, kibble which is made from actual food is dry and emulsified and....?. For what other mysterious properties it has, I've yet to get a good explanation.
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susan tuck wrote 01/27/2007 02:24 PM Re: Raw as a treat [Re: Amber Morgan ] #126545 - 01/27/2007 02:24 PM
susan tuck Webboard User Reg: 01-23-2006 Posts: 1608 Loc: Cali & Wash State Offline	Good for you, Mike. I applaud you for asking questions, doing some research & following it up by buying a much higher quality dog food. I agree with Amber, don't mix the raw & kibble because of the different rates of digestion. I think it is a good idea to start by treating her with RAW. The only thing is, since she has not had it before, she might be hesitant to try it. If that is the case, sharply curtail the amount of kibble you feed so she gets good & hungry. Don't worry, she is not going to starve over the course of say a week! The chicken wings are a good choice, but I have found dogs really like chicken necks, & also lamb to start. Once she sinks her teeth into raw, you won't believe the way her eyes will light up. She will look at you like "where has this stuff been all my life?". Good Luck & don't give up. Please write back with your results.
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Connie Sutherland wrote 01/27/2007 03:05 PM Re: Raw as a treat [Re: Guest1 ] #126550 - 01/27/2007 03:05 PM
Connie Sutherland Moderator Reg: 07-13-2005 Posts: 31580 Loc: North-Central coast of California Offline	Quote: steven lepic I can't say I ever came to terms why "kibble" should be fed seperately from raw stuff or why it stays in the stomach longer or (if it does) why that even matters. I've fed both at the same time, and I can't say I've noticed a distinct segregation of matter coming out the other end, or a delayed time of arrival. Of course, I've never fed crap kibble, so maybe I'm missing something. Point is, kibble which is made from actual food is dry and emulsified and....?. For what other mysterious properties it has, I've yet to get a good explanation. Most kibble contains a lot of baked grain..... baked to the point that it has an almost-infinite shelf life. I've read in many authoritative sources (to me, anyway, such as Tufts and UC Davis) that kibble takes about 3 times as long as fresh food to go from one end to the other. This leads to the concern that the kibble, if fed with raw meat, can force the raw meat into unnaturally long contact with the intestines, and a lot of the dog's resistance to colonization of pathogens in raw meats that can happen in the intestine comes from the very short, enzyme-based canine system. (The long, convoluted digestive system of a human, for example, allows for plenty of time for pathogens to colonize.)
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Guest1 wrote 01/27/2007 03:10 PM Re: Raw as a treat [Re: Connie Sutherland ] #126551 - 01/27/2007 03:10 PM
Guest1 Webboard User Reg: 07-17-2002 Posts: 860 Loc: Iowa Offline	Crap kibble you're saying. That would explain it.
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AnitaGard wrote 01/27/2007 03:19 PM Re: Raw as a treat [Re: Connie Sutherland ] #126554 - 01/27/2007 03:19 PM
AnitaGard Webboard User Reg: 10-18-2006 Posts: 353 Loc: Jacksonville, FL, U.S.A. Offline	Quote: Connie Sutherland concern that the kibble, if fed with raw meat, can force the raw meat into unnaturally long contact with the intestines Hey, Connie - I could have sworn I remember reading on one of those links you gave me before (and which I should have bookmarked, but didn't) that kibble stays much longer in the stomach, but I don't remember there was anything about how much longer it stayed in the intestines? I don't think it's any better for it to be hanging around in the stomach such a long time rather than in the intestines, though. I'm going to have to use the dreaded Search function and try and find those references, unless you have them off the top of your head? Thanks... Parek
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Connie Sutherland wrote 01/27/2007 03:54 PM Re: Raw as a treat [Re: AnitaGard ] #126557 - 01/27/2007 03:54 PM
Connie Sutherland Moderator Reg: 07-13-2005 Posts: 31580 Loc: North-Central coast of California Offline	Quote: anitagard ...Hey, Connie - I could have sworn I remember reading on one of those links you gave me before (and which I should have bookmarked, but didn't) that kibble stays much longer in the stomach, but I don't remember there was anything about how much longer it stayed in the intestines? I don't think it's any better for it to be hanging around in the stomach such a long time rather than in the intestines, though. I'm going to have to use the dreaded Search function and try and find those references, unless you have them off the top of your head? Thanks... I think I should've said "digestive system" rather than intestines, because my understanding is that yes, the grain-heavy kibble can remain in the stomach for 10 hours (this is my aging memory, so don't quote me on the numbers :grin as opposed to 3-4 for fresh food (broadly speaking) and is in similarly longer contact with the intestine. But the various food-borne pathogens have various methods and venues for occupying, attaching to, passing through, and/or destroying healthy cells, including (and this is not my word, but I liked it and remembered it :grin "intragastrically."
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Connie Sutherland wrote 01/27/2007 03:55 PM Re: Raw as a treat [Re: Guest1 ] #126558 - 01/27/2007 03:55 PM
Connie Sutherland Moderator Reg: 07-13-2005 Posts: 31580 Loc: North-Central coast of California Offline	Quote: steven lepic Crap kibble you're saying. That would explain it. Yes, I think you're right, because the references to much longer digestion time generally talk about "baked and extruded grain."
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Amber Morgan wrote 01/27/2007 03:57 PM Re: Raw as a treat [Re: Guest1 ] #126559 - 01/27/2007 03:57 PM
Amber Morgan Webboard User Reg: 10-18-2006 Posts: 1849 Loc: St. Louis, MO Offline	Quote: steven lepic I can't say I ever came to terms why "kibble" should be fed seperately from raw stuff or why it stays in the stomach longer or (if it does) why that even matters. I've fed both at the same time, and I can't say I've noticed a distinct segregation of matter coming out the other end, or a delayed time of arrival. Of course, I've never fed crap kibble, so maybe I'm missing something. Point is, kibble which is made from actual food is dry and emulsified and....?. For what other mysterious properties it has, I've yet to get a good explanation. Do you do mixed feeding now, Steven? If so, what kibble do you use? Carbon
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