ok, here's the deal. I have a 2 1/2 yr old male GS. I started another discussion on "General Breeding Questions." Since my boy came from a rescue, he is paperless.... I posted the question (with some pics) if he came from American Lines or German Lines.... just by looks... I got a mixed reaction from most... I think everyone leaned towards German Working. Take a look for yourself under "General Breeding Questions" (American vs German)

So, MY QUESTION FOR THIS FORUM IS THIS:

not knowing and having no training, what would my dogs protection level be. He is such a sweet dog, loving easy going, relaxed, loves to play, etc. I am just curious to his reaction if me or my wife were threatened. Does anyone have any insite on the GS and how protective they are?

For ex: I went to store, left wife and dog in truck. While in store, homless man came up to window and knocked. Of course she did not roll the window down, but am I wrong for assuming that he should have been a little more protective?

Is it something that comes in time? He has only been with us for 2 months... so, is it a time thing?


ANY ADVISE?

kk

If you really want to know, I would find a Schutzhund Club or reputable trainer of PPD's and have the dog evaluated professionally.
Sounds like he is a big lovable dog, but you never know. Dogs sense trouble, if the homeless man was not displaying threatening behavior maybe that is why the dog did not "key up" and "protect" your wife??
I would also check on your "dog laws" and find out what you need to do to be a responsible owner, if in fact you really want a PPD that will bite.
Dogs do not come with a "protection program", establishing a good bond, being a strong pack leader and obtaining the proper training is a big part of it. I truly believe that you have to gain a dog's respect and trust before he will "step up" and put him or herself in harms way for a human.
Just my two cents

I agree w/what Carol said, but I also would be less than optimistic about his potential based upon the homeless man scenario. Mine would have gone absolutely ballistic if someone knocked on the window. He very carefully, quietly watches until someone crosses that line in his head, and then it's all over. However, he's very territorial (not a great thing sometimes), and that's part of why he'd react that way. Bonds do take time, but 2 mos should have him a little more alert, IMO.

Yes, I agree...I think that its a strong pack leader issue as well.... But, with that being said, i feel that he looks at me as being the pack leader. He knows who is boss. We have already established that. Has taken some steady training, but I feel as if we are at that point.

You are correct though. THe man that walked up and knocked on the window did not show any outwardly aggression. BTW, my dog only looked (she said) at the man. No defensiveness. Not that i would want him to become defensive anytime someone approached, but the whole fact to know he would if I or my wife were in trouble.

I have always heard that dogs can sense trouble and know when the right time to react would be.

I am a firefighter and I am gone every third day and night... so my wife is home alone on those nights... so, this is one of the reasons I wanted to know about his protectiveness.

One reason that leads me to believe that he might bark, and/or be aggressive towards an intruder is that one morning when I woke up, I had a black jacket hanging on the doorknob in the laundy room. He usually sleeps outside our room, so when I wake up he usually follows me around. THat morning, he rounded the corner and started growling at the jacket that was hanging. I had to go assure him that all was well and nothing was wrong...

so, that leads me to believe that he could posses traits of being defensive with his "pack".

Any opinions?

I would have him evaluated as Carol mentioned,you just never know a dog on that issue without a test.My female is soo layed back and social you'd never know how civil she is when it comes down to the bite work, she simply knows how to turn it and off.You might have a dog like that or a dog that is defensive and guards for it's life but is not comfortable at encountering a bad guy.A good trainer can teach your dog to be level headed and handle bad situation in a stable matter.If I were you and curious about it , find a trainer and get it done.You'll know about your dog and more.
But becarefull what you ask for. When you start that kind of test , it has to be done is a very mild way first.I have a friend that wanted to know why her dog never barked when someone came to her door,she thought well if her dog didn't bark ,it must not know how to protect either.We explained many things to her about that but she insisted she wanted a helper to test her dog.We did a few exercise at her home to make her dog bark.We brought conflict to the home.Now her dog won't shut up when someone is at the door and when the gardners are in her back yard ,her dog gets very protective. My friend is happy about it but at the same time she'll say ,"I really miss the times when she was quiet".So I always remind people who have a curiosity about their dogs "Becareful what you ask for"

Angelique,

what kind of tests did you do at home...

I have thought about having someone come in ( a friend) late at night.. ( someone that he will not recognize) Does, the dog work off recognition or does the dog sense anxiety, fear, etc, in the intruder? or both?

Obviously having someone "pretend" to break in would not be the best of ideas, especially when the dog eats the friend... ha ha!

SO, Anqelique, just curious what tests a trainer would do and what you did at the home in the above post?

{We did a few exercise at her home to make her dog bark.We brought conflict to the home.Now her dog won't shut up when someone is at the door and when the gardners are in her back yard ,her dog gets very protective.}

just curious.

I wouldn't arrange a test by yourself. That could traumatize the dog, push it into avoidance and begin a bad habit, encourage an undesired behavior, or get someone hurt. Let a experience decoy test the dog's drive thresholds to see how his prey drive is and do just a mild defense drive evaluation (not too much defense...) Maybe your dog will have, or could build enough prey drive to build the confidence and foundation for defense to one day have what it takes to expect your dog to protect you. (or atleast raise the percentage) Without testing, you really have no way of knowing what your dog might do- how he sees threats displayed, any traumatic past that would affect his behavior, genetic/environmental thresholds....It's really just a guessing game until you find a club with a decoy willing to feel him out.

I think the dog needs more time to bond before you can determine whether he will be "protective" or not, since you have only had him for 2 months. Let him be, for now. Give him a while before you start "testing" him. Right now he is doing his best to learn about ya'll & fit in. He doesn't need any more stress.

Kelly, what we did , and all I did personaly was to giude my friend, my other male friend that is our helper for our club did the exercise.But this is how it went.
My friend was having 2 problems:1) the dog would not bark at the gardners(at all) 2) not barking at people knocking at the door.Not showing a hint of worries.
So we started with her leaving her house(pretend) and the dog is loose in the house.Now she has a one level home about 3200.Sq ft> with lots of glass windows to look over the back yard.Anyways, the helper went into the back yard and walked in a way a robber would to case the house, see if any one was in the house went up to the window and knocked at the glass-NOTHING, no Bark.( I was a bit shocked) but that was the reason we were there.
SO the helpers' next move was the front door he knocked pretended to try opening the door, again nothing from the dog.So he decided to take his padded stick and open the door slightly enough to hit the dog on the noze as she came to the door to sniff at the crack of the door, he hits her on the noze and quickly shut the door cause within seconds the dog light up and went nuts started to bark aggressively and showed a interest at defending her territory.FINALLY! He went to the back yard and when she saw him she light up again and showed a guarding reaction.Now she knows that conflict can come to her comfort zone -the home.That's all we did and that is all it took.We did it twice ,different days and we got a response alot quicker than the first time and it was very positive.This female is DDr, very mellow other wise but if the fight comes to her she will fight.The only thing we added is the second time we did the exercise , we had my friends husband & her in the house and the dog had a leash draggin , the helper attempted to come in from the back yard and she went to bite him but her owner(the husband) quickly grabbed the leash so that she couldn't bite the helper and the helper tried to hit the husband with the padded stick and the dog, but the dog was doing such a great job that he felt that it was enough.To this day this female now is more aware around her home on who is in the back yard and who should be there.
I hope I did not loose you on this ! Hard to go through step by step.let me know if you have more questions! No sleeve was used.

Angelique, yes.. I did follow you. Yeah, that is something like I thought about doing. I dont know why I would want to hire a "protection trainer" to evaluate my dog, when I can do something like this myself at home.. Im sure that they have tests that are more controled, yet i cant see the benefit in paying $$ for something that I can accomplish at home. Im sure that the situation could get out of hand, but feel that if I were there and the dog did want to bite, I would have the ability to stop the situation.

Im not that educated on bite training and maybe testing your own dog is "out there", but I dont see where it would be an issue. I dont know what else that the trainers can evaluate and tell me that I can find out on my own..

Maybe i am being stupid about the whole issue.

Anyone have any other sugestions on how to determine if he will protect his home or owners? I liked Anqeliques sugestion. Any more?