Hello everyone,

I'm very soon to be a first time GSD owner (and actually a first time dog owner, although my wife had dogs when she was a kid). We're getting our puppy on 2/17, so we're working to get everything puppy-proofed (if there is such a thing). We've watched 8 Weeks to 8 Months twice already, and will be watching Basic Obedience soon.

My question is about the comment on 8 Weeks to 8 Months that you shouldn't play tug-of-war with a non-working dog / pet because it will cause dominance issues. Did I misunderstand? Why would there be dominance issues if the groundwork is followed for proper pack behavior is followed?

Thanks in advance,
Hans

The general rule in dogdom is that the pack leader wins the tugs. I've also read a million times that you're not supposed to play tug with your pet dog--but I do...with one rule:

The dog ALWAYS loses. This is either because I actually get the tug away from the dog or because I tell him to "drop it" and he does.

This might not work on a dog with strong dominant tendencies...and in that case tug, will certainly make it worse. Every dog is different. Some submissive dogs can play and win tug and never challenge your authority, just like some dogs can sleep on the bed with no problems. I would not play this game with a dog that liked to challenge me.


As a general rule...it's best to stay away from tug in a pet until you really know your dog, IMO.

Good luck with your pup! I'm sure we'll be seeing you here often!

.... IMO people get too caught up in the dominance stuff. If your dog is really dominant enough for playing tug to cause problems then he is not the right dog for a new handler as a pet. Establishing rank over a dog has alot more to do with the handlers disposition. I would rather not play tug than never let the dog win, what a pointless exercise. But hey maybe that's just me

I play tug with my non-working pup and have had no issues whatsoever. I often let him win BUT....the toys are clearly my toys and I decide when he has them and when he doesn't. I also make sure we play when I want to and not when he demands it.

I've also found that incorporating basic obedience right in the middle of a game of tug works really well with my pup.

When my dogs play tug...they enjoy the game no matter what. They LOVE tug. I really think it's humanizing to think the dog is going to be bummed out if he doesn't win! Mine sure don't mind!

And playing tug with a pet dog isn't an exercise as it is with working dogs...it's just plain fun! And actually, after my dog "drops it," I throw it and he gets to keep it when he picks it up, thrashing it around. He just can't pull it out of my hands. All games have rules!


I think that the dominace thing *can* be overemphasized as well, which is why I go against convention and play tug at all.

But I will say that I thought that people worried about dominance too much, too, until my sweet-natured Corgi suddenly pulled rank on me. He had been sleeping on my bed...winning at tug...etc, because I didn't think it mattered. We stopped all of that stuff and his dominant behaviors went away and he went back to being my sweet dog.

Going through doors first may seem silly. Letting your dog sleep on your bed may seem like such a small thing. Always winning at tug may seem pointless. And if someone has a dog that doesn't have a drop of dominance in him, you CAN do all of these things...lots of people do with no problems. But I really do believe that, collectively and in general, they matter if you want to stay in charge. ESPECIALLY for the average pet owner with little experience.


All of these things are genetically hardwired to mean something to your dog, even if they mean nothing to you. But hey, maybe that's just ME!

I play tug with my dog all the time. He is a 1 yr. old GSD from working lines, that we are raising as a pet. Sometimes I win, by telling him to drop it, sometimes I let him win. When I let him win he always brings the tug back to me to play some more. It's his favorite game.

I'll put him into a sit or down, then walk across the yard and start waving the tug around. He has to stay where he is until I release him. Then he comes charging at the tug full speed, and I'll play like I'm a bull fighter. Eventually he gets his mouth on it and we have a tug-o-war. If he gets it away (I let go), he brings it right back to me to do it again. If I tell him to drop it, he does, then we do the whole thing over again.

Isn't it refreshing in the high-tech, computerized, modern world we live in to be able to relate to another creature in such a simple and basic way? Our kids could learn a thing or two from our dogs

I'm with Mike on this, my two dogs win most the time, I base some of my cute tricks on some tugging. Of course my girls are sweethearts to begin with. I guess as long as they understand its a game and they "out" when told it shouldn't be a problem.

 Quote: Hans Cook

My question is about the comment on 8 Weeks to 8 Months that you shouldn't play tug-of-war with a non-working dog / pet because it will cause dominance issues.
Hans

Mike and Dennis,

Just to clarify: I'm not saying that it's never okay to play tug OR to let your dog win (I don't do it, but I like to play it safe).

But the OP wanted to know why Ed said in his video not to play tug with a pet. I personally think that for a first time dog owner, especially with a GSD, it's a good idea for him to know why it can be a problem.

Hence my advice to avoid tug until he gets to know his dog. You guys already know your dogs and know what's okay and what's not.

Sorry to post again on this topic, but I just didn't want you guys thinking I was saying you two specifically are doing anything wrong.

Ed's advice is good advice for a novice, IMO.

I like pushy dominant dogs though

The "pack rules" that novice handlers are taught, you know the stuff, sit when I open the door, don't pull on a leash, don't jump up etc, is, as far as i'm concerned, a guideline. A very good guideline, but a guideline nonetheless. If you take someone who has kind of a pushover personality, it's far beyond the scope of a dog trainer to try and make the person more assertive on the whole, so it's easier to teach a person to enforce certain rules upon a dog. Ultimately you're basically tricking the dog into thinking you're dominant, rather than truly being dominant over your dog. I like the pack rules and I agree they work, even though I don't think I follow any of them, and most likely contradict em all

Fortunately for novice handlers, unless they were unlucky, most dogs aren't very dominant n breaking a few rules here n there doesn't make a difference. Also, some people own alot of dogs, so it's easier to just follow all the rules for all of them rather than railoring the way you handle each dog to the specific dog. Other people just like being in control all the time n expect their dogs to be robots n are throwing commands at their dogs all day long rather than letting them be a dog, perhaps a little overly dominant personality there

I'm not disagreeing with you, but what I am saying is that if someone wants to play tug with their pet dog, there's ways of maintaining dominance over your dogs even if you let them get away with murder, but it has alot to do with your personality, and from there, your learned handling skills and ability to read your dog If you plan on following "The Leerburg Way", I doubt you can go far wrong with that if you are good at understanding instruction, it's pretty bulletproof unless you have a real pain in the ass dog, but it's not set in stone, there's other ways to raise a pup n everyone has their own little twist on it Some people hate dogs that jump up, I teach my dogs to jump up...