I have a 6 mos old Female Malinois 'Sasha' that I am having some stuff happen that I am not sure how to deal with. We got a Mal for a few things once is we have young children 3-5 and 14 year dog walker for family (pet) with a protection element and are supposedly one of the easiest dogs to train. She is great with my kids she was a bit of a bully with my 3 year old but now he can fall on her and poke and prod her as he is the person who now feeds her under my supervision of course.

So far we've done the puppy and intermediate obedience at the local Petsmart. I've read how Mr Frawley feels about these places and for the most part I agree that they are just to wishy washy mainstream. Though the trainer that is in our local store is actually quite wonderful with some of the training problems we have been having with Sasha.

Now with Mals being known as highly trainable dogs. I am sometimes perplexed with the actions of my dog. Every day I try to do 20 minutes or so my 14 year old 15 or so and even my wife as well. So she has been getting a fair bit of homework I think. We all have been going to the OB classes with her too.

Some of the actions are I know she is resource gaurding, or dog dominance and when I say resource gaurding it is the most weird things. Such as (I suspect) guarding me from other benign dogs at class and lashing out (barking, trying to go at them) at other dogs when on walks. I've tried to go to a off leash park a few times too and she sometimes has the tendency to become a bully. Chasing other dogs for an example nipping and snapping at them. The wierd part is that it is not all dogs. One day she is all happy and playful with another dog and then the next time she is all ornery, with the same dog at class. I find this behaviour really unsettling and at the same time perplexing.

She is really fixated on other dogs balls too if she is off leash she goes hell bent for leather after that ball and it takes a real firm "LEAVE IT!!!" on my part to make her break away but she is showing teeth and growling at the other dog(s) leading up to that. I don't bring her toys now at all to any public place where another dog may be in attendance as that again, sets her up for this resource guarding, dog dominance behaviour.

The trainer that we have been using is trying to help us and that is recognizing when Sasha does her posturing thing is to break the concentration of the fixation on the other dog and to try to refocus her energy on myself. But she is incorrigible, it happens fast and furious. I'm trying to correct her on leash, shove treats in her face to refocus etc... sigh..

I have read the articles on this site already and am wondering about tools now. such as a prong collar or dominant dog collar. I want to get a remote collar as well but was advised that an electronic collar may just enrage her more to intensify her behaviour towards other dogs.

Can someone help me out here.

Geoff

First let me say I am no expert! But I have 3 GSDs - 2 are dog/dog aggressive. They are 6.5 & 7.5 and I spent YEARS trying to figure out their every mood and why they did what they did until a very wise woman told me something I will remember forever. It doesn't matter why - just fix it!

First - stop taking your puppy to an off leash dog park (read this website!). BIG mistake! Think of it as bringing a 2 year old to play with a 22 year old. And you're just sitting there watching... Who knows what's going on! Don't let your puppy get bullied. One thing I've learned is that I am responsible for my dogs and they should never feel the need to protect themselves against another dog - my puppy should feel that I am there to protect him.

Second - I was a trainer at PetsMart for almost 6 years. It's has it's pros and cons - but one thing it has is a never ending source of other dogs. Don't think of it as a doggy social - think of it as a great opportunity to work with your dog using the distraction of other dogs. Personally, I believe that after 5 months my puppy doesn't need to meet other dogs (especially dogs whose temperaments I don't know!).

After going to classes with my older two, I notice a BIG difference with my third. People are continually asking me why he is so well behaved and so focused on me... because he knows that he isn't going to get to interact with the other dogs! It's not about them - it's about him and me!

I have dealt with dog/dog aggression in my other two for years and I am determined NOT to let it happen again. I believe that most of it was caused by stupid things I did.

Stop it in it's tracks. Let your puppy know that you are not going to put up with that behaviour. And get out of the dog park!

I have two Pit Bulls, dog on dog aggression is a serious problem with my female. First make sure you have established the proper pack order as perscribed in Ed's teachings - that was my first mistake with my female. Once you are sure she sees you as a pack leader and still succumbs to her drives to dominate or challange another dog, find the appropriate tool to issue a correction that she will pay attention too. This correction should speak to her...it should say "Your behavior is not acceptable!" It should be timed and executed properly, meaning your dog should always be controlled. Your dog should always be given the opportunity to choose the right behavior, should the wrong decision be made the correction should be immediate and severe enough to disuade the aggression. I went through the choke collar to a prong collar to a dominant dog collar to finally an e-collar. It was the e-collar that allowed me to deliver my message so it spoke to my dog. My dogs aggression is part of what she is, I believe that is why her drive in this area is so strong....but Ed's pack training and help in choosing the correct training tool allows me to manage her aggression. Good luck, use this sites resources they are valuable.

I'm not a trainer but have to ask the question: Why are you letting a 6 month old off leash in any public arena??

Everything Lee said. And there is no reason for your pup to be off leash. Distractions are great, but there needs to be a correction for putting more focus on other dogs than is put on you. Your dog should not be mixing it up off leash with other off-leash dogs. Do you have Ed's DVDs? The two I reccomend to anyone with a puppy are "Your Puppy 8 weeks to 8 months" and "Basic Obedience". Most of your training should be done by you, with classes used only to proof your training and add distractions. These DVDs cover everything. Sounds like you have a great dog and you're here so you're off to a great start. Good luck!

Yup, I don't go to a off leash park anymore for the very reasons you mentioned as per the reccomendations of this website and our trainer. It does make it a lot harder to run my dog out of energy though.

Yes I agree that the basic training we have been getting at Petsmart has its pro and cons for us at this stage more pros. My thing is they HAVE to be mainstream as they are so visible in the community they have to be more politically correct in training methods (and that's not a bad thing) as I'm sure you are well aware of working there for 6 years. The trainer we have been utilizing is a very kind person and I feel genuinely cares about her clients and cares even more about the clients animals as shown by her advice and actions...

Again I say that ''No'' I am not bringing my 6 mos old puppy to off leash parks anymore. Please don't focus on my past mistake and disservice to my dog. I've been told enough

I'd rather focus on the problem at hand which is what I just qouted into this post.

 Quote: geoff empey

Some of the actions are I know she is resource gaurding, or dog dominance and when I say resource gaurding it is the most weird things. Such as (I suspect) guarding me from other benign dogs at class and lashing out (barking, trying to go at them) at other dogs when on walks Leashed. The wierd part is that it is not all dogs. One day she is all happy and playful with another dog and then the next time she is all ornery, with the same dog at class. I find this behaviour really unsettling and at the same time perplexing. The trainer that we have been using is trying to help us and that is recognizing when Sasha does her posturing thing is to break the concentration of the fixation on the other dog and to try to refocus her energy on myself. But she is incorrigible, it happens fast and furious. I'm trying to correct her on leash, shove treats in her face to refocus etc... sigh..

I have read the articles on this site already and am wondering about tools now. such as a prong collar or dominant dog collar. I want to get a remote collar as well but was advised that an electronic collar may just enrage her more to intensify her behaviour towards other dogs. I don't (want to) bring her toys now at all to any public place (such as OB class) where other dogs may be in attendance as that again, sets her up for this resource guarding, dog dominance behaviour.

I have just been given some advice in this thread but still not a clear cut answer on how to deal with it..

re: Dog on dog dominance

 Quote: "Lee H"

I'll never put up with it again

Lee could you enlighten me/us how you never put up with it again as you obviously have a lot more hands on experience than I have. I'd really appreciate it.
If it is now a more complex problem that I created well I'm open to other concrete suggestions.

Thanks in advance,

Geoff

PetsMart trainers can be terrible and can be great (hey, just look at me... !) - And the program they follow isn't bad -but they are VERY positive, positive, positive - and most won't tell you when you need to use more than just a verbal correction. Let's just say I did alot of whispering when I taught LOL Most dogs that come through classes are more like fashion accessories to their owners than dogs and most of my clients thought that just showing up for 8 lessons would fix anything that was wrong with their dog (not they could even make it to 8 classes!).

But when I got my new puppy I went for a puppy class (it was free for me so why not?) and I saw it from a whole new perspective. I didn't sit there and let my dog play with other dogs, I used the opportunity to work on eye contact. I sat next to a different dog every week and never allowed my dog near any dog that was not a puppy in the class (you just never know what walks into PetsMart or where they've been!)

With my first GSD he played with the husky next to him for 4 courses (not classes - courses!!). He saw every dog as a potential playmate, got bullied because I thought "he needed to learn how to be a BIG dog!" I was just plain stupid!

My new dog is 5 months and is calm, confident and can watch a yorkie walk by him at 2 feet and hardly lift an eyebrow! Hopefully it will continue (with lots of work - I know!)

Socializing is exposure - not a party!

Sorry if I go on and on - I still teach (my own classes - no more whispering!!) and it's one of my BIG issues. "How to keep your dog from becoming dog/dog aggressive" Most puppy owners hardly listen - because it will never happen to their dog....

Take it from me - you think you have problems finding a place to exercise your puppy now?? Wait until you can hardly take her anywhere there is another dog - or another stupid dog owner who can't keep their dog away from yours!! I really wanted to compete with my dogs, but their aggression put an end to that.

ok, I'm going to stop now...

I have just been given some advice in this thread but still not a clear cut answer on how to deal with it..

re: Dog on dog dominance


Here is what I would do, If I could not determine my dogs assessment of me and my family and her order in the pack, I would seek to have the dog assessed by a professional dog trainer with experience in dealing with dog/dog aggression. I had three such assessments done on my female...once at the beginning of her behavior modification, once during the process and once at the end to verify I had a handle on managing her aggression.

I would order the Leerburg DVDs that have been suggested already and I would include the DVD on dominant and aggressive dogs. Not saying your dog is either, but this DVD really showed me what dominance looked like and gave me insight into behaviors that indicated on coming aggression...all in all a great DVD.

Should it be determined your dog has a pack leadership issue...Ed's DVDs can tell you step by step how to fix that. If your dog shows she has the onset of dog aggression your trainer can assist you in learning to disuade and manage it.

 Quote: geoff empey

Lee could you enlighten me/us how you never put up with it again as you obviously have a lot more hands on experience than I have.
Geoff

When my first two dogs (who are very close in age so I made the same mistakes with both of them) would act aggressively in the begining I would PET THEM and say STUPID things like "don't worry, that dog won't hurt you..." I started off with the 'my dog doesn't like _______ (small, female, intact, docked tail.....insert whatever!) dogs' and make excuse after excuse!

This time - should my puppy make ANY aggressive noise, stance, thought - I will correct him with a correction like he's never had before (and he's had none yet!). I will NOT put up with that behaviour - period!

There will be no doubt in his mind that his pack leader isn't pleased ;-)