Hi there

I have a question about my male, neutered dog. He is 17 months old and weighs approx. 75 pounds. When he was a puppy he was chained and starved, along with at least 2 of his littermates, until age 8 months. So he is still a nervous dog in some situations.

I can't tell if the dog is dominant or not. Is it possible for him to be dominant in some situations and submissive in others?

For example, if he is laying on the floor (he's not allowed on furniture) and I am on the couch, and I lean over him to pet him, he will roll over and show his belly. He will also immediately give up any toy that he has if I reach for it. we do not play tug. He also does not guard his food. I make him sit before he eats, he's not much of a chow hound anyway. If he is nervous about something sometimes I will hand feed him, but I never remove his food or mess with it while he is eating. He rarely jumps up (anymore, once I taught him not to). He is well behaved in the house.

However: he just about drags me down the street on walks, even with a prong collar on. He rushes out of doors and down the stairs ahead of me. If I give him a really hard correction sometimes he stands up on his hind legs and barks at me (I am going to post a separate thread about this one issue). If he sees another dog or person walking, *and I don't have his leash* he will ignore anything I say. When he and my other dog are playing, he will crash into me at 100 miles an hour (repeatedly).

So, is he a dominant dog, or a part-dominant dog? He is dominant with my female dog, he will bump or push her out of the way sometimes. Basically what I am wondering is if I should take him through groundwork again, or if my first groundwork was effective.

Thanks.

Yes, he would be LIVING by groundwork at my house <:-) And if he's reactive on a prong, I'd use one of Leerburg's "dominant dog collars" on him instead -- Also, he should never be out running around offlead, because YOU need to be in control of his every move, to keep him for taking over as leader of your pack...

He's a teenager & is testing his limits AND yours !

I don't think you have a dominance issue.
A dog that behaves great at home the way you describe is great, when temptations and distraction come into play outside , he feels he can take advantage and shows no control.You are going to have to work very hard outside the home, not inside ,you already have that in control.You never should assume that just because he behaves great at home that he will behave the same outside.And IMO both of those have nothing to do with one another, that is proven by the people who always say"but at home he sits and comes to me"And now that they are not in their comfort zone they are like wild animals.You have to work your dog outside more often.You have to establish your power over him outside, stop letting your dog dictate how he is going to be outside the home.If a prong collar does not work , go to an E-collar, I have the dominant collar from Ed too and it's great at home but I would use something else outside the home for now.Something, where he will apalogize(for better term) when he gets out of line.WHat kind of dog do you have?
First I would have him heal from the time we step out of the house and I would stop for every two steps and make him sit at my side(in a finish position) and we would not go any further until he complied.I would do this until he gives me his attention and healed the way I wanted him to.You have created a bad habit, by the fact that you couldn't stop him but , now he thinks he can run out and drag you along.You have to slow everything down and demand his attention.So start slow.DOn't go any further on your walk until he is at your side ,make quick turns back toward your front door if he starts to lunge faster.Your walk does not have to be the same every day change directions.Use a different collar or method.Just an idea.

It doesn't sound like he is a dominant dog. From what you said, it sounds like you are interacting with him correctly to prevent any dominance and let him know you are the leader, which he seems to be accepting very well and has shown you no challenges. The behaviors you describe him showing at home are submissive behaviors. Groundwork is a constant way you interact with him, so you never stop doing it in order to go through it again.

Dominance is different than lack of training. The disobedience he shows outside the home are reactions to distractions and from lack of training around those distraction. Make sure you control his environment by keeping him on leash at all times and make sure his prong is fitting correctly (up high and tight on his neck near the ears). I doubt he'd be able to drag you if the prong was on correctly. Also a tight leash and a sit stay before every door and stairs will help the rush problem. Make him focus on you and behave before he gets his reward( to him in this case it would be moving forward through the door.)

The barking due to a correction may stem from frustration from not knowing what to do instead. Trained the correct behavior under that distraction before you give harsh corrections.
He may be trying to get you to play with him while he is playing with the other dog and crashes into you. Keep him on a long line, use a verbal correction to discourage him from doing it, and if he does run into you, have him do some ob to calm him down and remind him who the one in control is.

The dominance towards your female is ok if you let it be ok. No dog is ever equal- they are either in 2nd or 3rd place after you, they don't share 2nd. Maybe as he's maturing he may test the ranks by casually feeling it out by play, or possible fights that would have precursors for you to pick up on- don't worry. It is up to you to decide how that plays out based on her reaction of fighting for her rank or letting him take over.

Sounds like he is a well mannered dog and adjusted to the pack well, he just needs some distraction training and proofing.
I doesn't sound like he is even "part-dominant" from the behaviors you describe. He is still a pup and from the lack of socialization when he was younger this could all just be very overwhelming to him, causing the need for the further training and distraction work.

Alison Voore

Wow, thanks for the great replies!!!! They make a lot of sense. He seems to enjoy learning his obedience, and seems to be proud of himself when he does the right thing. I think his main problem is that his owner (me) has never owned a hard dog, or even a male dog, my others were soft females. So my poor boy isn't getting very good correction/distraction training. Angelique, he is a Louisiana Catahoula hound I call "Rusty" because he is black with brindle trim, so he looks like a rusty black car!! heehe..

I should clarify: When he is off lead, it is in a fenced area where he cannot attack anyone/thing or be attacked, or otherwise intimidate. But he can see out of the fence. The reason is because there is no way I can give him the exercize he needs on-leash. Hope that makes sense. When he is off lead he drags a 30-food leash. Problem is he knows when I have the other end in my hand or not. I try my best to make sure he gets enough exercise.

I am glad to know that he probably doesn't have a dominance problem. I do the things from Ed's articles: no dogs on the furniture, they eat after me, and they aren't allowed in my bedroom at all. They also are not allowed to show any aggression. I am very strict about that one.

try fitting him with saddlebags and make them heavy to wear him out more on leash walks.

 Quote:

When he is off lead he drags a 30-food leash. Problem is he knows when I have the other end in my hand or not.

If this is the case, then I would not give a command immediately. I would walk over to the end of the drag line and be ready to step on it, then give the command. One thing I'm trying to train myself to do is be very careful about the use of commands. If you let him know he can get away with blowing you off once, he's gonna keep trying again. He sounds just like my dog (also a rescue). The e-collar helped me a lot.

The reason he shouldn't be offlead is because he doesn't obey you when he's running free -- then he will become increasingly disrespectful of your commands, because he is learning that he CAN be...

It seems like I've previously recommended a weighted backpack to wear him out more, in less time, and an e-collar (!) but maybe I'm thinking of another poster OR a different CLD (?)

There is no such thing as "part dominant", and with rolling on his back and exposing his belly? Dominance went out the window on that. Barking at you on a hard correction is most likely just his way of protesting what he thought was unfair correction, but I wouldn't call it dominance. I like a dog who will stand up for himself if he thinks you're being unfair, I much prefer it over a dog who'll turn upside down on a correction. If he starts escalating then deal with it accordingly, but more than likely, you corrected him for something he doesn't quite understand, or maybe you're correcting him harder than he needs, lots of variables there.

All the rest of what you said sounds more like obedience issues, and not even particularly bad ones at that. 17 months is still pretty much a puppy as far as I'm concerned. Between 12 and 24 months is when the dog is trying to grow up n can be a pain in the butt if he's stubborn

 Quote: mike j schoonbrood

There is no such thing as "part dominant", and with rolling on his back and exposing his belly? Dominance went out the window on that. Barking at you on a hard correction is most likely just his way of protesting what he thought was unfair correction, but I wouldn't call it dominance. I like a dog who will stand up for himself if he thinks you're being unfair, I much prefer it over a dog who'll turn upside down on a correction. If he starts escalating then deal with it accordingly, but more than likely, you corrected him for something he doesn't quite understand, or maybe you're correcting him harder than he needs, lots of variables there.

All the rest of what you said sounds more like obedience issues, and not even particularly bad ones at that. 17 months is still pretty much a puppy as far as I'm concerned. Between 12 and 24 months is when the dog is trying to grow up n can be a pain in the butt if he's stubborn

It didn't sound like a dominance issue to me and am glad to hear others say so. Great posts!

Another thing to consider, since the pup was outside starved and neglected for the first 8 months of his life <grrrr>, it would seem that although 17 months old, he's really only 9 months old in terms of maturity. He seems like a sweet and good dog.