Obviously there are many out there that are full on hot heads and like to have a go at people for their own opinions.

So thus the reason for me starting this thread.

It was mentions in another thread that one should not breed for colour, i happen to mention that i will be breeding my next litter for black. I did not intentionally do this, but purely by luck i manage to find a stud dog that had qualities that would compliment my females and improve some that were not so strong.

So let it rip people. You are entitled to your own opinions.

I'm confused. You said in one sentence that you are breeding for black.

Then in the next sentence you said that you didn't intentionally do this.

So, could you clarify? Are you or are you not breeding for black?

Not trying to be a "hothead" but your post honestly didn't make sense to me.

It makes sense to me...........there are good working black dogs, so I have no problem with this. The debate is really no debate, because everyone knows only a fool would breed 2 crappy dogs or mismatched dogs just because they are black.

Ok well i was looking for a stud with certain qualities, something that would compliment my female but also improve on some of her not so strong qualities.

I didnt have much to chose from in the way of stud dogs, and when i did find a kennel that had these qualities it was by pure luck that the stud dog was black.

I will explain more later, but for now i have hungry dogs and kids...

Oh wait, I just looked at your website that you list in your profile:

http://www.brashawingsd.net/

According to your site, your goal is in part to produce LARGE BLACK German Shepherds.

My opinion is that the size and the color of German Shepherds are not the top priorities when breeding. And are you aware that the black gene is recessive and uncommon? That can lead you down a bad path since the gene pool is limited in that respect.

I understand enjoying the beauty of the black german shepherd, but they're gorgeous in any color. I want a dog that is sound, healthy and trustworthy, and I want my breeder to want that, too. Breeding for looks first is a mistake. Just my opinion.

Sorry, but beyond color there is so much more wrong. Do these dogs have working titles? Have their hips & elbows been certified clear of dysplasia? Do you know how to read a pedigree? I am not trying to be rude, I'm just tired of people breeding GSD's just because they can. You said you didn't have much to choose from in the way of studs, so then WHY are you breeding???

What's to debate? If 2 dogs are worth breeding then breed them, if they're not worth breeding then don't. If you want to produce good working black GSD's, go for it, but, if you have the choice of a GREAT stud dog that will produce a bi-color litter, or a good stud that will produce an all black litter... screw the color, breed the bi-color litter and call it a day. Working dogs ain't show dogs, if you wanna breed for looks then breed showlines. I doubt there's any intelligent person in the working dog world that would disagree with that. Look at the Dutch, they couldn't care less about papers or looks, if the dog works they breed it to another dog that works. There's GSD/Mali/Dutchie/Bouvier crosses running around that work better than most papered dogs

Another weird thing. After reading Susan's post, I went back to the listed website to see if any of the dogs were titled and references to hips, etc.

The weird thing is that the site has already been altered since I looked at it an hour ago. A whole chunk about the goal being large, black German Shepherds has been deleted, as well as big chunk on on the about us page that talked about their first black Shepherd and why they breed black Shepherds and so on as well as a link to something called a "black shepherd road test."

Sorry, I'm no expert, but this sounds fishy to me.

Weirder still.

This is a different thread that she posted earlier today that has the heading "Any info on Warkos Anrebri CS Sch3 IPO3?"

 Quote: shan winkler

Im not sure if i am posting this in the right forum...! and i apologies if i am.

Does anyone have any info on this dog or the kennel he came from.

I know he is currently owned by a kennels in Queensland Australia and was purchased from another kennel in Australia, but was wondering if anyone knows of the kennel he was bred by, and any other info etc.

This dog that she's asking about is listed on her "planned litters" section seen here http://www.brashawingsd.net/Kirra.htm

I'm sorry, but Shan, if you don't know these things about the dog you are using as a stud then WHY ARE YOU USING HIM? Because he's black?!

When I was searching for my pup, I ran into some people who were breeding for some very strange reasons and I was almost screwed over by one of them who I found out was following the similar practices as you are, and I'm so glad I did my research before I paid any money.

Breeding for size, color, and with stud dogs you know nothing about is NOT a way to improve the breed. Please reconsider how you are doing this.

Mike thanku for your input. The choices i had for stud dogs were few and fair between. A couple of the dogs had a few things i was looking for and others didnt. When i contact several people here in Australia about stud dogs i was informed of a few good choices that would compliment my bitch and also enhance some of her not so strong points. After speaking with the owners of each stud dog i then consulted with a good friend of mine who has been around working dogs all his life, and i had told him of my decision, he told me that it was a good selection.

Sara, my website is a work in progress and incase you hadnt noticed on the home page it clearly states this...so in other words ITS NOT FINISHED YET! and yes part of my goal is to produce black shepherds but that may not always be the case. The sire of my last litter was not a black dog, If that is anything to you.

And as for posting elsewhere about the stud dog i will be using in the future, was purely to find any information on the kennel he cam from and to see what other people's opinion was on this dog. It wasnt because i didnt know anything. Purely for my curiosity.

As far as your concerned with my using this dog as a stud...NO ITS NOT BECAUSE HE IS BLACK AND OBVIOUSLY SOMETIMES PEOPLE MUSTNT READ THE WHOLE POSTS...because i think this is the 3rd time i have said this...
I am using this dog because he compliments my bitch but also offers some stronger characteristics that my bitch is not so strong in, certain areas

Gee some of you people get me realy frustrated, you seem to jump on the box so quick without knowing the whole story and are so quick to judge others, makes me thik do you really have any friends, cause if this is the way you treat people here, then i would hate to see how you treat friends or even clients...

There are far worse people here were i live doing much worse. I know of plenty of people here who are breeding purely for black GSD's. These are the people that are creating the problems GSD's especially blacks... They do not even compete with their dogs in any form of sports or obedience

We do not have a sports dog club in every suburb here in australia, were lucky to have the clubs we do. And for those of you who live here would know the rules between ANKC and working dog clubs.

So therefore i work my dogs privately with a trainer but also compete in obedience and attend obedience club training.