KEVIN KINKER wrote 02/12/2007 10:19 PM predigree questions #128842 - 02/12/2007 10:19 PM
KEVIN KINKER Webboard User Reg: 12-31-2006 Posts: 19 Loc: Offline	Was looking to get input on this pedigree such as- what people know about these lines - If people would mix these lines for breeding. I am fairly new to knowing the workingline names and showline names. Any input is appreicated http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/120910.html http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/40044.html
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Mike J Schoonbrood wrote 02/12/2007 10:27 PM Re: predigree questions [Re: KEVIN KINKER ] #128846 - 02/12/2007 10:27 PM
Mike J Schoonbrood Webboard User Reg: 04-30-2005 Posts: 2784 Loc: Toronto, ON Offline	That first dog is all showline, the 2nd dog the top half is showline, can't figure out the bottom half, I wanna say maybe a showline/work line cross? I don't recognize the kennel names and the photos are pretty unclear. Not what I expect from a typical showline pedigree. I see vom haus iris in there which I believe is a DDR working line kennel. What are you trying to shoot for? Is this a breeding you'd like to do or know someone doing?
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KEVIN KINKER wrote 02/12/2007 10:34 PM Re: predigree questions [Re: Mike J Schoonbrood ] #128848 - 02/12/2007 10:34 PM
KEVIN KINKER Webboard User Reg: 12-31-2006 Posts: 19 Loc: Offline	Breeding was done by someone else. I was just wondering what lines they were from. I was aware of some showline but was also told of good workingline in pedigree. I was just looking for some input to see if breeders knew what they were doing.
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Mike J Schoonbrood wrote 02/12/2007 11:09 PM Re: predigree questions [Re: KEVIN KINKER ] #128854 - 02/12/2007 11:09 PM
Mike J Schoonbrood Webboard User Reg: 04-30-2005 Posts: 2784 Loc: Toronto, ON Offline	I hate showline/working line crosses, pointless pointless pointless. Too ugly to show too useless to work. The theory is that they are adding in the drive of the working line into the showlines but often the dogs end up with the worst traits from both ends. They call it "the golden middle"... if you want a dog to work then get a working dog, if you want a pet, or a weekend schutzhund dog or a show dog, get a showline. There's good showlines out there if you look hard enough. To buy a good adult showline from Germany you're looking at over $10,000 though... if someone has a great showline, they won't part with the dog for cheap, they'll make their money with pups and stud fees. What is your goal for your future pup?
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Martina C Wilson wrote 02/13/2007 01:44 PM Re: predigree questions [Re: Mike J Schoonbrood ] #128945 - 02/13/2007 01:44 PM
Martina C Wilson Webboard User Reg: 11-09-2005 Posts: 211 Loc: Offline	Mike, My dog has Showline in him.. that was 7 generations ago.. he is cross, just like a lot of Czech/Slovak even DDR dogs.. sometimes for the sake of GSD looking like GSD they do put some show here and there. Not often, but they still do.. even now a lot of people do not know that Czech have sable Show line dogs in a lot of working line pedigrees. I do not like it.. but I guess it needs to be done..I leave to the breeders
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Angelique Cadogan wrote 02/13/2007 05:39 PM Re: predigree questions [Re: KEVIN KINKER ] #128988 - 02/13/2007 05:39 PM
Angelique Cadogan Webboard User Reg: 10-18-2006 Posts: 1725 Loc: Las Vegas Nevada Offline	You've got ,showline, ddr, and Czech.A mix if lines. Not the best IMO I agree with Mike I don't like the mix of showline and working line, we had a showline female that we had bought for my parents and my working line male got to her(long story short) and she ended up having a litter of 8, few problems with those puppies today(they are 18 months), no great colors and no extreme drives that I can tell so far.We gave em all away at 8 weeks to friends ,they are all altered,we have 3 in our club.A breeding I would never have done and planned for.Kevin, I would look else where....
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Mike J Schoonbrood wrote 02/13/2007 09:17 PM Re: predigree questions [Re: Angelique Cadogan ] #129022 - 02/13/2007 09:17 PM
Mike J Schoonbrood Webboard User Reg: 04-30-2005 Posts: 2784 Loc: Toronto, ON Offline	Martina, I have seen some badass dogs who have showline in their pedigrees 7 generations back. One of them bit someone in the hand in training on Sunday because he's so damn toy posessive. Showlines 7 generations ago were a whole different creature than the showlines bred today. If you take showlines from current lines it's kind of pointless to mix them with work lines... it is better to take 2 really good showlines (there are good showlines out there) and just focus on producing good working showlines, than it is trying to mix the lines with work lines to produce the worst of both worlds. Odds are you'll throw out a nice puppy here and there, but with the amount of great working line dogs out there, why would you dilute the gene pool by crossing the lines and creating a halfass dog? If you are breeding for good working showlines, then adding working lines takes away from the beauty of the showline so you might as well breed work lines.
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Guest1 wrote 02/14/2007 09:57 AM Re: predigree questions [Re: Mike J Schoonbrood ] #129069 - 02/14/2007 09:57 AM
Guest1 Webboard User Reg: 07-17-2002 Posts: 860 Loc: Iowa Offline	As a matter of fact, showlines themselves are too ugly to show.
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Martina C Wilson wrote 02/14/2007 03:09 PM Re: predigree questions [Re: Mike J Schoonbrood ] #129128 - 02/14/2007 03:09 PM
Martina C Wilson Webboard User Reg: 11-09-2005 Posts: 211 Loc: Offline	I agree Mike.. I just stated fack about the breeding. I have seen pretty crapy results from these preedings and some good. Nobody will show the crapy one though.. I learned that. I prefer nice all working dog myself. I agree that 12 years ago the Show line was a bit better.. they actualy worked nicely
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Jenni Williams wrote 02/14/2007 03:23 PM Re: predigree questions [Re: Mike J Schoonbrood ] #129136 - 02/14/2007 03:23 PM
Jenni Williams Webboard User Reg: 10-06-2005 Posts: 2686 Loc: llinois Offline	Quote: Mike J Schoonbrood I have seen some badass dogs who have showline in their pedigrees 7 generations back. One of them bit someone in the hand in training on Sunday because he's so damn toy posessive. So true! My champion sired Pekingese (of Westminster winning lines) is also a badass...if toy possessive equals badass. Seriously though, the bottom half of Karlo's ped is DDR (Parchimer Land, Kaiser, Kornersee, Grafental...). Interesting mix, not one I think I would've done, but w/out meeting the dog it's tough to say a whole lot.
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