I'm sorry for the long post but please bear with me...

Gunnar, my GSD is 23 months old. He was neutered this past Monday. I picked him up at 5:00 PM. He cried till around 8:00 PM. Cried again about 4:00 AM thru to about 6:00 AM. Hasn't cried since Tuesday morning. Was lethargic thru Tuesday which I expect. Started acting himself on Wednesday in terms of his energy level. Here's the problem...

Since the surgery, all day, every day, he's doing this very funky submissive thing. He'll just be acting normal, walking into a room when all of a sudden he makes a mad dash to the room ahead of him or his blanket, anywhere to lie down. But he does it in a way that you'd see a very, very submissive dog act; walking normally then all of a sudden goes into a cowering/crouching position as he's trying to get to the place to lay down. Low to the ground, ears back, head low and when he gets there he almost throws himself on the floor. It's like he's in pain and laying down relieves him. But it's sudden and he doesn't act like he's in pain. If it were painful or itchy, he'd turn his head to the stitches but he doesn't do that. He cowers to the ground and puts his head down and does nothing. He slams his head to the ground with the same speed as he does his body.

I have a video of him doing this and I'm trying to get a better one. The video I have doesn't show the cowering as he's walking; only the point at which he reaches his bed and flips his body around really fast to get to the down position.

And this behavior comes out of nowhere. He'll be doing anything, nothing, everything, it doesn't matter, and he'll all of a sudden do this thing.

I'm posting because he's continuing to do it with each day. His stitches are not bleeding. Generally speaking, he's leaving them alone. I work from home so I can see he's "cowering" about 20 times a day which I think is a lot. He's not a submissive dog in any shape or form but if I had to describe it, well, that's what it looks like. It looks like the documentaries you see of wolves and the omega wolf and how he cowers. It's my best description for you all to help me. I'll try to get a better video and post it (with the help of my teenager).

Any ideas? He's never ever acted like this before. Has he been traumatized somehow? Could neutering change a dog's dominance and do it overnight? Could this surgery change his personality like this ?

Holy cow, Judy, you must be so worried! Have you called the vet to see if this is anything he/she has heard of?

At first glance it does sound like a pain reaction...very weird. I know they aren't generally given, but did he get any meds? It's possible, I guess, that he's having pain or discomfort somewhere that isn't isolated to the incision site.

Perhaps he's just confused and freaked by the new sensations of something happening to his body that is unfamiliar but who knows? In my lifetime I've seen and had many dogs and cats that have been altered and I've never heard of that (not to say it doesn't happen, though). Hopefully someone here has had a similar experience to put your mind at ease.

I'd call the vet, if you haven't already, just to make sure there isn't any kind of complication to the surgery.

PLEASE keep us posted. I feel like I know Gunnar and you and I'm worried for you both!

Oh Judy...I can't stand to hear that about Gunnar. First thing I would do is call the vet and ask "what the HELL did you do to my dog???" Maybe the vet isn't telling you something, maybe something went wrong....pry it out of him.

Can't say more, too upset to hear this news.

i'm not a vet and don't play one on tv. but as a longtime dog owner, it sounds to me as if he is reacting to pain. the cowering could be a response to sudden, acute pain caused by the stitches, say when he turns a certain way or rolls onto one side.

possibly the way the stitches were sewn is pulling on him in a way the vet did not intend.

what are you using for pain meds?

you can try moving him around in various ways and see if any of his movements cause this response. you should also take him back to the vet to see if possibly the stitches or something internal is causing him pain.

and then, even if you don't find anything, ask the vet for a very effective pain med. when my dog had abdominal surgery last fall, the backup pain med (in case rimadyl didn't do the trick) was tramadol, and it certainly made my dog happy.

if you try something like that and the dog's behavior improves, you know that he's reacting to pain.

it's unlikely that this is a reaction to hormonal changes, as that takes a while. the testosterone doesn't leave his bloodstream that quickly.

Thanks Amber. I'm worried too .

I did call the vet and the jackass vet tech said, "He's not in pain. He wouldn't do that if he were in pain".

What??

All I could say to that stupid comment was, "Why the hell not"?

I have an appt. for tomorrow afternoon but I have a feeling they won't do much. Especially with the attitude the vet tech had.

He is on pain medication and an antibiotic. It's just scary because he's acting so normal in his diet in his alertness, his activity level, etc. I just can't seem to explain it other than to say it's almost like a completely different dog during the episodes . It's like he's suddenly scared to death of something.

I also agree with approaching the vet. Not sure what could be causing this, but please keep us posted!

See, the vet tech's reaction REALLY pisses me off... It's like they're trying to cover their butts before they even look into what could be wrong. The reaction I'd have expected was "oh jee, well bring him in and we'll have a look at him right away!"

Sounds like there MIGHT have been a complication they didn't feel it necessary to tell to the mere non-professional pet owner...

I'd have SLAPED someone that treated me like some kind of idiot like the vet tech is doing to you.

Judy I would take the dog to a different vet and have him checked out. There may be no signs on the "outside" but he may be in pain internally.

I am lucky to have a vet (or three depending on where I am training at) that are totally supportive of RAW and also trust that I know my dogs well enough to know when there are problems or the dog is just "not right". Plus, they also allow me to be with my dogs through the entire visit, whether it is routine or surgeries.

Do you have law enforcement with K-9's in your area? You could call them and ask what vet they use and take him there. Most vets that work with LE dogs are more agreeable to owners knowing that something is wrong.

Just a suggestion. Please keep us posted.

Sandy, I did call the vet and made an appt. for tomorrow afternoon but I also called another vet whom I have considered switching to. They asked more questions then the jerk vet tech whose office did the procedure!

Alice, maybe you're right and I'm not looking at the pain portion of it correctly. I thought if he was in pain, it would hurt while he was running around, climbing stairs, playing, etc.

Since it only happens when he's walking calmly throughout the house, it caused me to gravitate away from the idea that pain was the cause. But pain would explain it better than the lack of testosterone I suppose (based on what you put in your post about it being too soon for that to be the cause). You might be right.

He's on Deramaxx 100 mg but I was told to give 1/2 tablet once a day and the antibiotic is Cephalixin 500 mg. Is the Deramaxx a decent pain killer?

I have never seen this behavior before either. I would think the vet office would be a little more sensitive to your alarm, AND they themselves should want you to get him in right away, since this is not normal post op behaviour. If it were me, I would insist they see the dog immediately and if I did not get satisfaction I would go to another vet. Don't let them brush you off.

What is this medication used for
Deramaxx is a non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drug (NSAID) belonging to the COX-2 inhibitor class. This medication is similar to the human medications Celebrex and Bextra. It is FDA approved for use in dogs for the control of pain and inflammation associated with orthopedic surgery.

over glorified asprin. they gave me Codiene for a less evasive procedure. bet its stinging like hell