I hope you guys don't mind me posting this. I don't have any friends that would understand ... I just had to vent about my dog:

For newbies - 24 month old, just-neutered-last-week, GSD (showline) .

I let Gunnar outside this morning to hang out in the front yard. All was great, until a neighborhood teenager came to stand in front of my house to wait for the schoolbus. Gunnar barked at him and ran over and stopped about 6 feet away from him. Actually stayed there watching him too. I was so proud!!

Here's where it all fell apart...

Problem started when the boy (very tentatively) reached his hand over the rock wall to let Gunnar know he was "friendly". My stupid a** dog started wagging his tail and was starting to go up to him even closer to what I am certain was to be pet !

The thread about dog thieves and the fact that they exist, along with just plain stupid people makes me crazy my dog did that .

The kid, I think, did what was maybe natural...my dog was not looking menacing, I know the kid's mother (they live 3 houses away) and the kid probably heard from his mother that Gunnar is friendly. It doesn't change the fact that Gunnar does not know this kid and had no qualms about meeting him .

Angelique, if you're listening, you told me to bring conflict to the dog. This is hard for me to do. I don't really trust setting up the scenario w/a teenager that Gunnar doesn't know. It's just screams "litigation" if something were to go wrong. In theory I think it's a great idea though.

Does anyone else have this problem? Their dog is too friendly? Two days ago he was in the front and the fed ex guy rang my bell!! This made me crazy too. How did he get all the way to the front door, my dog never let out a single bark ! I opened the door to see the fed ex guy giving my dog a treat and Gunnar taking it!!

Do you see my problem .

Any of you trainers out there - there's got to be a way I can teach him to not go up to the teenager, fed ex guy, neighbor, milkman, etc. without the use of a 3rd party bringing him conflict.

Any ideas? I'm not looking for him to turn into Hannibal Lechter, just a dog that doesn't openly invite Satan and his friends to come party !

Some dogs are just "friendly" and social. I would think that at 24 months, if he was going to show territorial instincts/aggression you would have seen it by now. Without training, I don't know how you can change the dog. You absolutely DO NOT set up a scenario with a teenager though!!! yikes. You find a quality trainer to work with, not neighbor kids or fed ex guys.

how did you handle him as a young dog? did you encourage him to be friendly and welcoming to everyone coming to your place?

Edited to add Ed's comments: He said that unless you have excellent insurance and your house is PAID for you would be best advised to leave things as is. You already have kids reaching over your fence, and delivery men coming into your yard. He would NOT recommend teaching this dog to show aggression in your yard. It's a lawsuit waiting to happen.

Didn't you have an instance where your own child was bitten by a dog that you posted about on here a while back?



Edited by Cindy Easton Rhodes (03/07/2007 07:53 AM)
Edit reason: to add Ed's comments

Why was your dog loose on your front yard if you're worried about pet thieves? The fact that you describe so accurately how the boy reached to pet him makes me think you were watching the whole time?

I can't give you advice on how to get this dog to not go to strangers, though. But he seems like a good boy, why mess with that and make him all angry? He's not an idiot...

 Quote: richard pryor

Why was your dog loose on your front yard if you're worried about pet thieves? The fact that you describe so accurately how the boy reached to pet him makes me think you were watching the whole time?

Richard, you're missing the point. My fault I guess. I try to keep the posts short while adding just the right details.

I live in a very quiet, very upscale town - there is literally a zero crime rate. It doesn't mean that something can't or won't happen to him! It also doesn't mean that we stay here 24/7. I take him places. Places that aren't as crime free.

And yes, when I hear my dog bark (he seldom barks :crazy I run to the window to see what he's barking at. At the point that I got to the window, Gunnar was about 5 feet away from the kid, standing, just watching the kid but the kid was facing my dog which made me uneasy. Was he talking to Gunnar? I didn't know so I watched. It was at this point I saw the kid reach his hand over the wall and Gunnar go to sniff his hand that I bolted for the front door. The whole thing lasted about 10 seconds. When I yanked open the front door and yelled "Gunnar, NO" the kid apologized and my dog ran to get a ball to play with .

I'm not trying to "mess with him and make him all angry". Richard, you're killin' me. Read the last line of my original post! What I want is for him to ignore people saying, "c'mer little doggie. I have a treat for you"....

Cindy, I stupidly wanted him to be PP trained (he's a showline, I'm an idiot ). Now I know better but back then, I socialized him with PP training in mind. I never let anyone but kids and women pet him and that was only if people asked. So maybe 30% of the socialization involved being pet my strangers.

Regarding the house and letting him welcome people, yes anyone who came in I allowed him to say hello - oh crap - this is where I made my mistake, isn't it??? Sh*t! OK, now what do I do? Can I undo the damage or is it too late?

 Quote: cindy easton rhodes

Edited to add Ed's comments: He said that unless you have excellent insurance and your house is PAID for you would be best advised to leave things as is. You already have kids reaching over your fence, and delivery men coming into your yard. He would NOT recommend teaching this dog to show aggression in your yard. It's a lawsuit waiting to happen.

Didn't you have an instance where your own child was bitten by a dog that you posted about on here a while back?

I'm not trying to teach him to show aggression. I'm trying to figure out how to teach him to ignore people who invite him over. I mentioned the "bring conflict" to him thing because that was what was told to me as an idea to get him to stop trusting everyone under the sun.

You know the GSD description "GSDs are aloof to strangers" - well my dog never got that memo!

So as I said in the last line of my first post, is there a way to get him to stop inviting Satan and his friends to come play? Just ignore strangers. That's all I want .

BTW, my son was bitten by my ex-husband's mastiff. I just found out that dog was put down due to cancer right after that incident .

This should make my point:

Three weeks ago I'm walking in my neighborhood w/Gunnar - off leash - and 3 construction workers were about 20 feet ahead of us and getting into their car. Gunnar stayed walking alongside me but was watching them. There was absolutely not a single word spoken between us before one construction worker actually said to me, verbatim, "Your dog looks too friendly"!

I said nothing and kept walking. Why did this man say this? I don't have a clue but the point is this was a complete and utter stranger and that's the "feedback" he got from my dog without ever even seeing my dog before that moment .

If you see your dog as the village idiot for being a nice guy, well, I feel for you. Are you doing SchH or any sport with him? It is my opinion, that you need a combination of genetics and specific upbringing and training to have a GSD dog who will be aloof to strangers. He's 2 years now? Are you still training him in PP?

No. No PP training anymore. I figured out I was trying to put a square peg in a round hole about 6 months ago. Not sure what you meant by the "I feel for you". I absolutely love that he's friendly but there is a point at which it becomes a problem.

Analogy - I want my kids to polite to who they come in contact with but there are times that being polite would have it's disadvantages - like being bullied by someone. Don't we all as parents teach them to be polite but if some stranger grabs them, scream, fight, etc.??

Well, this is the same thing I want with Gunnar in a sense. Be polite but....

I thought a GSD was aloof by nature. I want him to be friendly to people but aloof to strangers and want to know how to teach this since he obviously didn't inherent the aloof gene.

The "I feel for you" statement was in reference to what I interpret as you feeling let down or disappointed by the fact that you have a dog who sways more to the friendly side of the spectrum.

One thing I've learned, is, in retrospect with my last GSD, was my lack of consistancy in training. My experience with him was that I ended up with an incredibly friendly dog, very driven, but very friendly. I accepted him and didn't try to change that friendly part--didn't view him as an idiot for being that way. I had socialized him to no end as a pup, in other words, his super friendly attitude was my "fault". But I guess I don't necessarily see having a friendly guy as a bad thing if you are not needing your dog as a PP.

Perhaps on walks and outings with him, serious attention to redirects when around others and much praise when his focus is back on you and you alone. Maybe this will work. IMO, it will take a lot of time.

When I was a kid, every Shepherd I met was a showline, and every one I met was an incredible sweetie and balls of fun. It's because of dogs just like yours that they first became my favorite breed of dog! If they were all aloof and guarded, maybe I wouldn't own one now! So look at Gunnar as an ambassador to the breed!

As I got older and came in contact with more GSDs and learned more about what they're capable of...and especially the working lines...I started to prefer the characteristic aloofness and also the protective nature often seen in the breed. But I still love a sweetie! It's like the Shepherd for beginners!

Just as a side note: We had a Border Collie as a family dog when I was a kid. She was EXACTLY like how you describe Gunnar. We laughed when we talked about bringing her along for protection on walks.

But one night, when she was 14 years old, we woke up in the middle of the night to her barking and growling at the door. When we investigated, we saw the marks and splintered wood on the doorjam where someone had been trying to pry it open. Her reaction obviously scared the would-be robber away. We were astounded.

Turns out she never responded to a threat before because there WAS no threat.

Not saying that's what's going on with Gunnar, but who knows?