I am brand new to the board and have tried to do a search to find out what is the preferred color of a East german line dog. I seem to be more attracted to those type dogs, than the american saddlebacks...
If someone wouldnt mind helping me out explaining what the difference is between a Chec dog and a DDr dog, that would help too.
I am just getting into the breed, and did a resuce on a Enckenhausen/Von Forrel dog, just to get used to a large dog again. He seems to have a low drive too, maybe due to being kenneled all his life and not being worked with. At any rate, he is simply rescue and pet . I am owrking with him to improve his skills.
A friend of mine said his is grey sable and devalued do to being grey, but did not tell me what preferred color is.
Before I spend a couple grand on the next on, I need to know what I should look for. I want a dog for protection and possible show.
Thanks for any help I get

Normally a dog does not do well in BOTH protection and show. Which one is more important to you?

Princess Weasel, my mostly Czech girl,is progressing rather nicely in protection work. I plan on obtaining a show rating on her later and will be happy if just A-she doesn't eat the judge when he examines her teeth and B-he doesn't tell me to remove my coyote from the ring......

Dogs bred for show are mostly black and red--I have two sables laying at my feet which are from working lines.

Well I really just want the PPD version...My friend told me I have a grey sable and a long haired (rescued 2 days ago) and that he had no value even to be a pet. I think he is beautiful because he does not look like a saddleback..I like the extrodinary look. Ok so at least I know if I want to show must be black and red...thanks

Working lines are concerned with working ability over looks. Why would your friend say your dog has no value, even as a pet? Odd statement...

 Quote: Denise Rinker

Well I really just want the PPD version...My friend told me I have a grey sable and a long haired (rescued 2 days ago) and that he had no value even to be a pet. I think he is beautiful because he does not look like a saddleback..I like the extrodinary look. Ok so at least I know if I want to show must be black and red...thanks

Odd statement for your friend to make about the dog not having value even as a pet (good grief!) - what is your friend basing that assessment on? You've only had the dog 2 days and that was his judgement of the dog?

There are plenty of threads here regarding Czech/DDR dogs, even discussions on color. The Leerburg site also has tons of articles you can read on various subjects having to do with working lines. You might want to do a search for more information. You won't find one specifically on the preferred color of a DDR dog, as there are several colors/patterns of working line dogs. Reading through Ed Frawley's articles on the Leerburg site and the threads here on the forum will give you a foundation of understanding on working line GSDs.

At this point since you've only had the dog 2 days and since he's been kenneled all his life (and you said not worked), rather than start working him to improve skills (which he may not even have yet) you spend a couple of weeks (at least!) bonding and playing with the dog and getting to know him. You want to do what's best for the dog at this point, and bonding with his new owner always comes first, top priority. Obedience training and other work can come afterwards.

Then, even if he has had some obedience training, it's a good idea to start from the beginning, as if he's never had any, with treats for motivation. See the articles on Ed's site: http://www.leerburg.com/obediencetrainingdogs.htm

Thanks Sandy....

In response to the original question (of colour), I think that the only thing to take into consideration colour-wise when selecting a dog to breed is quality of pigment.

Of course working ability is first and foremost, along with health and temperament. But let's face it, a dog with faded washed out pigment is not very impressive to look at when compared with dogs who have gorgeous rich pigments.

(It's my understanding that Max von Stephanitz (sp?) recommended dark sables to help improve pigmentation in lines with faded colours... I hope someone more knowledgeable can confirm/deny this)

Denise,

There really is no 'preferred color' for a DDR GSD or any other GSD within the standard. The accepted colors are Sable, Black & Tan (including Bi-color), and solid Black.

Historically you'll see DDR GSDs with all of these coat colors.

That being said, like Yuko pointed out, pigmentation (the quality & richness of the color) is another issue. This again holds true for all GSDs, but good pigmentation (deep red & brown coloration) is preferred & in a general sense DDR GSDs had a reputation for good pigmentation.

Yuko (and Denise), here's a quote from Max: "The coloring of the dog has no significance whatever for service; our shepherd dog accordingly is not bred for color...although it cannot be denied that a good pronounced coloring improves the general appearance made by the dog."

Found on this site: http://maxvstephanitz.homestead.com/mvs_conformation.html

Denise, I had a gray sable female GSD when I was a kid. I didn't know anything about "drive" back then, nor would I have cared. Mercedes, my GSD (call name Meri), was the absolute most fantastic GSD ever. Her coat color had nothing at all to do with her disposition, temperament, intelligence, willingness to do and learn whatever I asked of her, loyal, protective, brave and true to the end. I used to have her "walk the plank", using two 2x4 pieces of lumber, separated, so she had to walk one side of her body on one piece, the other side on the other piece. Not something a dog likes to do, as one could tell by the look on her face, but she did it. (I'm going to try and scan that pic and post it or upload it to photobucket.)

In other words, she could do it all, including climb ladders and jump jumps. Nothing about her color, which I absolutely loved, btw, dictated to HER what she could or couldn't do, or what she was inside.

Sandy, Meri sounds like she was a wonderful dog

Of course it's obvious that a shepherd's colour/pigment has nothing to do with its working ability. I don't think anyone would ever question that

I was just saying that it's a good idea for breeders to take pigment into consideration when selecting breeding dogs.

With working ability, drives, health, temperament, pedigree etc. all being the same, I'd think that it would be preferable to choose a dog with better pigment for breeding purposes.

People who really work their dogs and count on their performance don't care what their animals look like, but shouldn't breeders keep pigment in mind? They are supposed to be improving the breed after all. Colour may be irrelevent but pigment and the overall quality of the dog's coat should count for something shouldn't it?



EDIT: ok I went and dug this up; I was sure that I'd read what Ed had to say on the matter a while back. He wrote this on this board in 2003 in response to somebody's comment:

 Quote: Ed Frawley

The same argument can be made about black and red dogs - the more red these show dogs have the more pigment they are loosing.

It's always important to know what is in every dog's pedigree. I do agree that every breeder should consider good pigment.

(Here is the original thread where I got the quote).