As much as I would love to feed my soon to be puppy raw, I don't see it as being practical for me. So, I am trying to choose between the high quality foods Ed lists in his article. I recently started feeding my cats Innova EVO and will be switching my senior dog also when her current kibble runs out. On http://www.dogfoodanalysis.com they review the really high rated foods such as Innova EVO,Orijen, Timberwolf, etc. They all say the high protein content of these foods may not be suitable for puppies. Why is this? Some of them, such as Orijen, offer a puppy formula, but I have never even seen this food before, so I assume it would have to be ordered. Both the adult and puppy formula have min. 40% protein with a 70/30/0 "biologically correct ratio" (70%meat, 30% fruit/vegi, 0% grain) so isn't the difference just how much you feed? My dog(s) are ACD's (35-40lb). so they aren't a large breed. Any suggestions?

The problem with the high protein/high fat foods like Evo are that they may cause your puppy to grow too fast and this can cause problems down the road. There can be problems with hip and elbow displaysia and how their bones ultimately fuse. Go to http://www.dogfoodproject.com for more info on this concerning your puppy. The other issue that can occur with these foods is that your dog (puppy or adult) will need to drink a lot more water than normal in order to process the higher levels of protein. Remember this is a kibble food meaning that it is dry as opposed to a high protein raw diet that maintains a lot of its natural moisture. I would be very careful putting your senior dog on Evo. Do this under the supervision of a good vet. You could cause your older dog to go in to kidney failure. If you are going to do this it needs to be done slowly, not, when the other food runs out. I talked to someone who was at a pet food seminar and they were told that some dogs can only handle the dry Evo for about three months and then need to be off of it for awhile. Be very careful with your older dog. If you need a good food for your senior dog try the regular Canidae formula. I have a 15 yr old GSD on it and he is doing great.

Orijen seems like a very good kibble. I think it's made in Canada. If you can get it, and won't feed raw, then that's the best option IMO.

I don't think anything will happen to your puppy if you feed him Innova. I'm sure my dog is getting a lot more protein from his raw chicken/rabbit/turkey/etc... than yours will get from his kibble, and he seems fine.

my experience with innova evo is that dogs do well on it for the short-term, but over the long term they become unthrifty and their stools become runny. i let my dog eat it for five days max. and only use it when we're backpacking.

if you google "innova evo" you will find lots of online discussions about this and many other dog owners relaying similar experiences. 40 percent protein is much too high for a kibble for long-term feeding. there is a serious risk of pancreatitis.

have some on hand for when you run out of raw, or travel.

WOW, thanks for that info. I had no idea about high protein causing kidney/pancreas problems. I wont be putting my old dog on it!

What would be the "ideal" percentage of protein for a puppy? I wonder if it was mixed with the "regular" Innova which is 24% protein, but has ground barley and ground brown rice in it if it would be better for a puppy? The Canidae senior/overweight food only has 18% protein and brown & white rice. Is that enough protein? She is DEFINITELY not as active as she was in her youth (she's 11 1/2) and she does have hip problems that require medication a few times a week.

I know this is a "dog" forum, but EVO is ok for cats, right? They need more protein/fat. The main reason I switched to it was because it was grain free, and one of them has allergies. The last thing in the world I want to do is make them sick.

Innova Evo is not appropriate for puppies, according to their website FAQ.

They do make an Evo formula for cats but I don't know if that is suitable for every day feeding. I have my cats on Innova Lite since they are on the chubby side.

Thanks Steve for that link. It is VERY interesting and informative. I need to email the link to my friend who feeds her pug Science Diet (UHHGG) and thinks its the best food ever. We got into a little, uhmm..discussion. about that.

I'm going to have to respectfully disagree . While the "too much protein" discussion is ongoing, the growth reasons you stated are not the issue. Too much protein alone will not make your pup grow any faster than he's genetically disposed to; it's the other parts of the equation-calcium, phosphorus, etc. that have more to do with HOW the bones grow and fuse.

Dr.Pitcairn has an excellent section of his book devoted to addressing these myths, and he explains that witholding protein and calcium are not going to slow down the dog's growth; the dog will continue to grow at a fast rate...but his bone/joints may be compromised due to LACK of sufficient nutrients. Ok, not exactly word for word, but that's the gist of it. Get the book-well worth it! Great to have on-hand for little ailments, too.

Another thing to keep in mind is comparing kibble to raw is not even valid when discussing protein. A whole bunch of protein in forms that are (at best) difficult to digest, and at worse, detrimental (grains) can in fact be tough on organs like kidneys and the pancreas. This is where, I believe, the "too much protein" myth begins. They're unable to metabolize or utilize much of what's in kibble, putting undue strain on the endocrine system.

Raw protein, OTOH, is as nature intended...high protein, NO GRAIN, and very limited veggies. BUT, it's in a form that is useful to the animal. Think of wolves-they don't restrict their pups' food intake to prevent excessive growth, and how many dysplastic wolves do you know? Alice's Evo opinion is pretty popular-a kibble fed dog will do much better for a few weeks, then 'drop off.' The seemingly great improvement is merely AS COMPARED TO THE PREVIOUS KIBBLE, and not a true reflection of how the animal will do on it longterm.

I would never feed a dog a food with grain in it longterm, especially not an older dog. There are kibbles on the market (if you absolutely must feed kibble) that are grain-free, and not quite as high in protein...if protein is an issue for the dog due to age or endocrine issues. Timberwolf Organics makes a food called Ocean Blue that's a fish-based kibble w/lower protein than their other grain-free, higher protein/fat kibble, Wild and Natural Dry. It's an all age kibble, and it has no grain, unlike Canidae. I like these foods b/c half the weight of the bag is meat-you're not paying for brown rice and barley that are useless and detrimental to your dog's health. Dogs do very well on them longterm, unlike Evo. (Which I, too, use in a pinch away from home).

Sorry for the novel-length post, but this protein issue isn't as black and white as it seems, so making blanket statements to the effect that protein causes kidney problems isn't really fair or accurate. I feed raw to all mine, and I don't worry about the percentage of protein in every meal; I pay more attention to the FOODS I'm giving them and in what quantities, supplement with Vitamin C (high doses for growing HD free pups), Wild Salmon Oil, and Vit E, make sure they're getting good bones, and call it a day. So far, so good.

Jenni may be right here...

I found this statement about Innova on another discussion board rating dog food.......I found the following quote interesting

 Quote: Anonymous/Unknown

My mini-dachshund loves this stuff!!! He had severe skin allergies that were causing significant pain and scratching/licking/chewing. We tried him on several good foods (including Nutro Natural L&R and Solid Gold Just A Wee Bit), but with no success in helping his situation. So after shuffling between different proteins, my vet and I determined that might not be the problem. So then I was reading about this grain-free food online & figured what the heck, might as well try it. In less than 3 weeks his swelling, redness, and tenderness was reduced 95%!!! It was clear he had developed some sort of grain allergy, and this food put an end to his misery. He has now been on EVO for nearly 14 months & still goes crazy for the taste of it. His coat is beautiful & he has WAY more energy than I ever will (he literally would play fetch 24/7 if we could keep up). This food is great stuff. As a side note, don't believe most of the crap you hear out there regarding high protein diets causing kidney failure. If you take the time to research it, you'll find that the original study to conclude this was conducted on...RATS!!! Rats are not built to thrive on meat diets like dogs are. Most (if not all) dog nutritionists have debunked the protein / kidney disease myth nowadays....so don't believe the hype. Besides, grains could hardly be considered traditional food for dogs - the only reason they are so prevalent nowadays is because the cereal industry decided back in the 1940's it should do something with leftover grains unfit for human consumption. Heck, the practice of replacing meat with grains in pet diets has only become widespread since the 1930's - when the depression forced pet owners to seek alternatives cheaper than meat for their pets. But I digress.. Anyway, think about this. Have you ever seen a wild/stray dog munching lazily on corn in a field? I didn't think so...LOL. In conclusion, Innova EVO is a fantastic food & (for me at least) well worth the slightly higher costs. Please feel free to PM me if you have any further questions about my experiences with this food. Thanks!!!

Hi Jenni.

Thanks for correcting me. Tried to send a PM but it's full.