Hello,

I've been reading on this forum and others that pertain to dog training so that I can train my own dogs a little better. I have a 4 month old Rottweiler and he is enrolled in class. I also have an eleven year old female Akita. Both dogs are kept separate for the most part, but are allowed to "play" while being supervised. In general, they do rather well together. When the playing becomes too rough, we separate the dogs.

With my dogs I use both positive and negative reinforcement. They are given treats and praise when they do good (I wean them off treats over time), and corrected when they refuse to obey a command they know (quick (but not harsh)tug on the leash when the dog refuses to sit after a second or so). Usually a firm voice works and corrections are rarely needed. When the dogs are very excited, I just force them into a "sit" by pressing down on their rear. After 3 or 4 times, the dogs tend to remain sitting.

As occurs when researching I have come across conflicting advice. I have used the techniques of going through a door before the dogs do (or up the steps). Stepping in front of them (especially the puppy) when a stray dog appears while we are on walks). Keeping the dogs off of couches and beds. The NILIF method has proved most successful. I have tried many different suggestions on how to subtly show that I am fair, consistent, and protective.

However, on other forums and even from my own trainer I was told that these methods were "antiquated," (with the exception of NILIF). In short I was told that "a dog knows the difference between a human and a dog," "with a human there isn't a pack," "a dog needs to be around other dogs so that it can speak 'dog,'" and "dogs don't understand corrections."

I am rather confused. My Rottweiler is well socialized, but even at this age he is protective of my husband and me. He obeys with very little hesitation, unless he is distracted. On walks he'll bark at people or dogs he's unfamiliar with, but won't bark at those that are familiar (this my trainer said "showed that the dog needed more socialization").

I can't help but to feel that I'm missing something. The eleven year old Akita listens so well to us and so does the Rottweiler. I'd hate to think I am doing something wrong.

If these methods are "antiquated" then what am I suppose to do? When I ask my trainer and others who disproved of my current method of training what I should do, they merely say "be fair and consistent," but really don't go into much detail about what they mean.

Thanks for any help you can offer.


Sincerely,

Jennifer

 Quote:

However, on other forums and even from my own trainer I was told that these methods were "antiquated," (with the exception of NILIF). In short I was told that "a dog knows the difference between a human and a dog," "with a human there isn't a pack," "a dog needs to be around other dogs so that it can speak 'dog,'" and "dogs don't understand corrections."

What a load of crap.

Jennifer, I believe a dog CAN tell the difference between human and dog, BUT it's human family is also it's pack. Dogs and humans are alike in that we are both social and have either families, friends and/or packs. A dog understands a correction, because if it stops doing something because of a verbal correction or physical correction, it's still a correction. If your Rottie is in a class already, it may be too soon for him to be trying to learn in a place w/so many distractions. You might get better results training him yourself at home w/no or less distractions and at the same time building a stronger bond w/him. He is very young at 4 mos. I am glad you are looking at different places for knowledge. That is the best way to assure you pick what you feel is right.

Your current methods sound pretty good to me, Jennifer.

The only thing I'd be doing different at this point is looking for a different trainer. Or order the "your puppy 8 weeks to 8 months" and "basic dog obedience" DVDs from Leerburg and do it yourself.

Ok, well I do believe dogs know that we aren't of the canine variety...but that doesn't mean they don't consider us one of their pack.
Look at other animal pairings. I've seen dogs on farms connecting with horses, ducks, goats etc. I've seen a herd of horses accept a goat into their fold. I am sure they know he's not a horse, but he is a part of their life and if worse came to worse they would protect him as they would any other member of that herd.
Or humans for example...we know our dogs aren't human, but we do consider them a part of our family (human pack) regardless.
Tucker would rather play with me than another dog or person any day of the week. That doesn't mean he thinks i am a dog, it means he knows I am alot more fun than any other dog/human around.

Its not that we're trying to fool our dog into thinking we're canine...we're just training them to realize that despite the fact that we don't have four legs...we are still leaders of the pack. We're looking at things from their perspective. We know they respond to pack leadership so we attain that role.
You will always get conflicting training information. Sometimes thats the problem....you get so much information thrown at you that you don't know what works and what doesn't. Every dog is different though, and what works for one will not necessarily work for another.
I find people train the way they are comfortable with. Some people aren't comfortable with giving a dog a correction so they may lean towards the Motivational only type of dog training. But for them to say that a dog doesn't understand a correction makes no sense, if that were true, than they also wouldn't understand praise. If you can understand a positive result, you understand the negative too.


Do whats best for you and what you feel gets you the best results.

Wendy, Nicely said! That was great.

 Quote: mike j schoonbrood

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However, on other forums and even from my own trainer I was told that these methods were "antiquated," (with the exception of NILIF). In short I was told that "a dog knows the difference between a human and a dog," "with a human there isn't a pack," "a dog needs to be around other dogs so that it can speak 'dog,'" and "dogs don't understand corrections."

What a load of crap.

As nicely as others explained their viewpoints, I have to admit that my own response was going to be a lot like Mike's. He beat me to it.

Isn't it great that we have such a range of patience and willingness here?

Mike's response was great, wasn't it? Works for me!

I was thinking something along those lines, but was afraid that someone might agree with what the trainer and other forums had said.

I hear that crap every day, it seems. Decide for yourself, it what you're doing is working, and you feel comfortable with it, then that's how you should be doing it.

My parents' dog Bella recently went to a class where they taught the dogs to do some tricks, and I tagged along. This place was 100% motivational ONLY. Since we were only doing tricks, it worked fine, and it was fun for my family. But then one day I got to meet the trainer's dog. The dog was barely listening to basic commands - he'd do it eventually, but he was VERY sloppy.

Anyway, ever since then I've felt extra sure of myself when I use (fair) corrections in training. If my dogs are happy, healthy, and better trained than someone who's running a training business...well, I must be doing something right!