some of you may be familiar with my dog's string of illnesses....which i believe as do in part to poor nutrition from the breeder in general...

we've had worms
cough
demodectic mange
and now most recently a staff infection....

well, my vet tells me that the staff infection, just like the demo mange, is due to poor nutrition...

most of you know that i have been looking into all things doog food...i settled on solid gold wolf cub food....he loves it. i am about convinced to make the transition to raw...b/c i am sick of my dog not being healthy...(although he is happy)...

am i missing something that i should be giving my pup (almost 6mos.) for his health? suppliment...and so on?

i am going to order some salmon oil and some kelp and other leerburg recommended items fro raw feeding...so that i have them on hand for the switch and not go into it illprepared...

someone please tell me what i can do in the time being to boost charlie murphy's immune system...this BS mange and staff have me pissed off.....

thanks all...

Louis

 Quote: louis larose

well, my vet tells me that the staff infection, just like the demo mange, is due to poor nutrition...

Mange is caused by various mites. Good nutrition isn't necessarily going to prevent a dog from getting them, just like good nutrition won't prevent a dog from getting fleas and ticks. Kind of confused by your vet saying what he/she said.

What "bad nutrition" is the vet referring to? What was your pup on?

As for the switch, from my own recent experience, go slowly and take the skin off. Stick to chicken necks and backs and gradually add in other things. I wouldn't even do supplements until you know your dog is okay with the switch, with the exception of probiotics.

All of this advice I'm giving you is not a raw expert opinion...just sort of a translation of the expert's opinions that I've gotten here and my own experience.

thanks amber. i read your recent issues thread and have taken everything to heart...

ok, let me explain about the nutrition...

with demodectic mange, from what i have read and the vet confirmed, it is present in a LARGE number of dogs. it is passed on to the pups from the mother....

it IS a mite, but from what i was told and gather, the mites are dormant in most cases and if the dog's immune system is up to snuff, they will never be an issue. what happens is that when the dog has a lowered immune system, the mites "wake up" and the end result is a sporadic pattern of hair loss and scabs...they do not seem to bother the dog like sarcoptic would....he does not chew or itch a lot....just a little here and there..but that is to be expected...i scratch too...lol...

the staff and the demo mange have and are both most likely related to a dog with a weak immune system...and are results of not being able to fight infection....

that is what i was referring to...sorry i was not more clear...i just puke random thoughts on the keyboard a lot....bear with me...

so..is there anything {read: like orange juice for humans) that i can give my pup to make his immune system flourish?

Okay, I did a lot of reading on demodectic mange after my last post to you, and I now understand where you (and your vet) are coming from. Sorry for my ignorance...I'm smarter now!

It does seem to go hand in hand with a weak immune system, from everything I've read. So, what is causing the weakened immune system in your pup? Bad nutrition you said, right? Could you elaborate? I'm assuming you meant bad nutrition from the breeder...but how long have you had the pup and what have you been feeding?

The only reason I'm asking is because I'm wondering if there is another immuno-disorder that could be causing this. In that case, obviously poor nutrition would make it worse, but I'm wondering if it's possible to identify the actual disorder to make treatment more specialized for your pup. It would seem to me that if your dog's immune system problem is directly a cause of bad nutrition, then it should have cleared up since you've been providing the good stuff, right? Or at least improved?

If a complete and balanced diet is at all times vital to your dog's health (I mean that the dog wouldn't be able to handle a week or two of unbalanced meals) then if I were you, I would do TONS TONS TONS of research on raw and animal nutrition and I would become best friends with Connie Sutherland ...and perhaps even a full spectrum vitamin supplement while you're transitioning. Most dogs can handle an off balance diet while the owner works the kinks out of transitioning a dog to raw. Perhaps in your case, though, it would be better to hedge your bets and try a supplement while you switch.

I don't know...this isn't my area of expertise, but if your dog has a lowered immune system and has so many problems as a result of it AND is a puppy...I'd play it safe.

I have a friend who's a vet and has access to the "vet only" online resources. I'll try to find some info for you about supplements.

With all of that said, I've heard time and time again that many of these immune system disorders and problems miraculously disappear with a raw diet, even without supplements. Perhaps that will be the case with your dog. I certainly hope so; you must be worried and frustrated.

 Quote: Louis LaRose

... it IS a mite, but from what i was told and gather, the mites are dormant in most cases and if the dog's immune system is up to snuff, they will never be an issue. ...

Yes, it is an immune thing, but not necessarily an across-the-board immune system weakness; it is an inability to self-protect against demodectic mange..... a mite-specific immunoincompetence that allows the mites to colonize.


Staph infections, too, might not be a direct result of a weak immune system in general; the virulence of the staph presence might have been enough to overwhelm most immune systems.

But chicken-or-egg, the broad picture would prompt me too to look at enhancing the strength of this dog's immune response.

My own feeling is that excellent diet is the number one tool for supporting the immune system.

I'd concentrate on ingredients that naturally contribute immune-enhancing micronutrients. That is, I'd try to use fresh, raw, organic foods if at all possible.

I'd absolutely use fish oil and E, because of the anti-inflammation benefits, and I'd get Ester C too.

And I'd use only foods that are species-appropriate, too. While most dogs (scavengers, after all), can survive and even thrive on some darned inappropriate foods, I'd want this dog to have nothing but the foods that canids are designed to eat. (I'd use meat-only treats, for example.)

I'd steer clear of this breeder in the future, too.

sounds good. thanks for all of your time and information...it is greatly appreciated..

i just want my little buddy's head to not be scabbed up anymore...it gets raw while he is in his kennel everyday....

i am looking into the raw foods more...i am going to get a 40# cs. of chicken necks and backs, like we use for chicken stock here at the restaurant...it is pretty cheap...like $20.00 or so...and then look into some of the beefier bones for him....

i am about to call and order the raw food DVD so i can watch it....i have more time for that than i do reading the books....

Good job!

You might also want to think about THK Force or Embark with RMBs added as a transition food.

This is such a good food, with top-quality ingredients, and with trace elements from foods that are immune-enhancers.

For this dog, it seems to me that it could make the change very smooth. :>

But of course, so can poultry (with no skin for starters), and very gradual additions of every ingredient.

I'd go slowly with this guy, giving his system all the time it needs.

And I'd start with the fish oil and E (mixed tocopherols) immediately. I'd get extra E, too, to squeeze out and apply topically to inflamed spots on his head.

I've seen some major turnarounds based on excellent food.

 Quote: Connie Sutherland

And I'd start with the fish oil and E (mixed tocopherols) immediately.

Sorry about the stay away from supplements thing I said...I have answered on so many posts today about diarrhea that I think I forgot where I was!

You didn't say that...... or I didn't see it!


But I'm not a huge supplements person. I really like to feed the food that contains the micronutrient, if possible.

Omega 3s are a major exception because of the loss of so many of the natural sources in the modern diet.

All JMO.