Hey Everyone,

This might be the wrong area to ask this, but I wasn't sure. I was wondering what others thought about this situation. A very healthy dog who has had all the required test; OFA, Thyriod, ect..., and has shown no signs of any other health problems in her life time, has been bred to a very nice stud that has had all the same test done, and is clear of all health problems as well. Half way through the pregnancy the female develops one patch of hair loss on her lower flank, at first the skin scraping came up with nothing. So things went on as normal, pregnancy is going as planned, no complications. Well than 2 weeks before she is due, even though it looks better, the vet does another skin scraping and finds one demodex mite. Would you consider taking this female out if a breeding program? And what about the future use of the offspring from this litter for breeding in the future? Any thoughts would be great. Thanks.

Maybe this would be good to post in the breeding or vetranary section.

My lab-grayhound mix had patches of hair missing and the scapings showed mange. We went through the chemical baths and it did improve. My vet told me that all dogs carry this mite but that most dog's systems automatically fight it just some dog's systems do not and that is why she could have mange and not spread it to the other dogs.

Long story short - her hair started falling out again. The chemical baths did not work. We discovered that she had extreme food allergies and would even react to the special food the vet sold. The only food that hasn't is Lamaderm which Wal-Mart sells (ironically enough). If this ever stops working I'll switch her to RAW.

I notice too that during times of stress she will loose patches of fur and when the stress is absolved the fur grows back.

Also I don't know if this helps but the chromosome for skin glands is on the X chromosome. What this results in is Male animals (and people) will have consistant skin cells on the whole body where females will have "patches" where the glands are different. This is because females have two X chromosomes and during the development process one of the X chromosomes will shrivel up and turn into what I believe is called a "Barr Body" that is the inactive X chromosome. This is why calico cats are always females because it is a result of the different X chromosome that is active. So that may be why she is affected in certain patches. It is just an idea on my part.

I'm not a dog breeder so probably I shouldn't have posted at all. But good luck!

Ok, i understand that dogs that develop generalized, were it covers the whole or most of the body and requires treatment, demodex should be spayed and neutered. The dog in question has one Localized, one small spot that is correcting itself without any treatment, and the vet found only One Mite, and that was only after 6 weeks of pregnancy, and the first time they did a scraping showed nothing, and has never shown any signs of demodex before the pregnancy. This dog comes from very nices bloodlines that to my knowledge do not carry demodex in them. The sire is Kanto vom Firecatcher, and the mother comes from the Van Meerhout line. The reason I'm so interested in this situation is because I am looking into buying a sibling to this dog, or possibly on of the her puppies for my small breeding program. Thanks again for any info.

 Quote: Geneva Sieffert

Ok, i understand that dogs that develop generalized, were it covers the whole or most of the body and requires treatment, demodex should be spayed and neutered. The dog in question has one Localized, one small spot that is correcting itself without any treatment, and the vet found only One Mite, and that was only after 6 weeks of pregnancy, and the first time they did a scraping showed nothing, and has never shown any signs of demodex before the pregnancy. This dog comes from very nices bloodlines that to my knowledge do not carry demodex in them. The sire is Kanto vom Firecatcher, and the mother comes from the Van Meerhout line. The reason I'm so interested in this situation is because I am looking into buying a sibling to this dog, or possibly on of the her puppies for my small breeding program. Thanks again for any info.

OK, I gotcha.

I've read that even localized Demodex in an adult could indicate an immune problem (immunospecific to Demodex, I mean); that is, that if an adult actually develops lesions (as opposed to having the mites present but not developing lesions), some vets would say that the dog should be removed from a breeding program.

Just having the mites present -- not so much.

I have also read that adult-onset Demodicosis, or Demodex in an adult who had not had it in the past (sudden onset) was a red flag for an underlying immune compromising disorder like thyroid problems, cancer, etc.

However, maybe the stresses of pregnancy are in themselves enough to make her more vulnerable to developing lesions for the first time now.

If you can wait a day, I will check out the stuff I've bookmarked about mange and see if I can find something specific about breeding a dog with localized adult-onset Demodex that's resolving on its own.

Ok, thanks. What do you mean by Lesions? I have seen the spot there is no redness or anything just no hair in that small area. Thanks again.

 Quote: geneva sieffert

Ok, thanks. What do you mean by Lesions? I have seen the spot there is no redness or anything just no hair in that small area. Thanks again.

It's usually a reddish, kind of scaly circle, but "lesions" really means any abnormality in any organ (like the skin) where disease makes its presence known. It can be a sore or infected area, but more broadly, hair loss and patchy fur qualify.

P.S. I don't know anything about breeding, just so you know; all I can do is find what authoritative people say about it.

Adult dogs developing localized demodicosis is not common, so most of the advice is about localized Demodex in puppies that spontaneously resolves, or generalized Demodex, or dogs with a family history of demodicosis in related dogs.

But there will be something.

Thanks again. Yeah the skin is not red or scaly in any way, just missing hair. Thanks again for any help.

I found mixed opinions about it. Here's one that is repeated to some degree many places:

QUOTE:
QUESTION: If I have a dog that has Demodex, does that mean I should not breed it?
ANSWER:
If you have a dog that has or had a brief, localized episode of Demodex and has recovered well, then breeding may be considered; but some veterinarians believe that any dog that has displayed skin manifestations of Demodex should be removed from a high quality breeding program. END from
http://www.thepetcenter.com/exa/dem.html

where the vet also says:
QUOTE:
QUESTION: What about the dog that suddenly develops Demodex later in life and never had it as a puppy? ....
ANSWER: This is called Adult-onset Demodicosis and is most commonly seen in what are assumed to be healthy dogs but that in reality are actually affected with an underlying pathology or immune compromising disorder. Therefore, whenever a veterinarian is presented with a case of Demodex in an adult dog the doctor is alerted to the possibility that there is a potentially serious underlying disease going on that has compromised the dog's immune integrity. END from the same site

QUOTE from http://www.marvistavet.com/html/body_demodectic_mange.html :
Occasionally an adult dog develops localized demodicosis. We currently do not have good understanding of the prognosis or significance of this condition in an adult dog. END


Also, QUOTE: Adult onset demodex may be due to a decreased resistance to the mite as a result of a compromise of the immune system. It is speculated that some internal disease may cause immunosuppression. The feeling is that there is a subnormal percentage of interlukin-2 receptors on certain blood cells called lymphocytes. In adult onset mange, owner must be warned of the possibility of a major internal illness or a malignant cancer. ...
Breeders must assume responsibility to remove carriers from their kennel (both parents and siblings) to reduce or eliminate the incidence of demodex. By following this culling program, some kennels have eliminated the disease from their line of breeding. END from http://www.petshealth.com/dr_library/dmang.html

 Quote: Geneva Sieffert

And what about the future use of the offspring from this litter for breeding in the future?

QUOTE:

CAN THE PUP BE BRED LATER?

Sometimes the puppy with localized demodicosis was obtained for breeding purposes. The current recommendation is not to treat these puppies so that we can determine if the condition will stay localized and resolve or if it will generalize. If it stays localized and eventually resolves without treatment, the animal is still a candidate for breeding. If the condition generalizes to cover the entire body, the animal should be sterilized. If the condition receives treatment and resolves, we will never know how the disease would have gone in its natural state and will not know whether the pup is carrying the genetic predisposition for demodectic mange. In this case, it is best to be conservative and not take the chance of passing on genetic predisposition for this disease. END from http://www.marvistavet.com/html/body_demodectic_mange.html

Connie,

Thank you for the information. But sadly it still doesn't help the problem at hand. All the dogs in those question had demodex onset as adults, but none were had it come on because of pregnancy, it was just a sudden case of it. We know for a fact that this was only brought on from the pregnancy, and that only, and the fact that it clearing up on its own as the pregnancy is almost over, says that it is all due to the hormone change during pregnancy. They have done a complete blood work up and a full health work up just before the bitch was bred and everything came back perfect. So they are going to talk to a specailist tomorrow and see what they say. Thank you again for all your help. I'm looking forward to hearing from them tomorrow to hear what they found out. Thanks again.