I have been seeing a trainer who is spectacular with dogs. She has an uncanny knack of being able to make the dog understand immediately what I apparently can't communicate over months of trying. The best thing she's done is teach ME how to teach my dog. Complicated things are now simple.I can't say enough about her.

I have a friend who I recommended this trainer to. After their consultation my friend decided not to go with her because the trainer has a policy of not training dogs with aggression issues. My friend's dog doens't even have the slightest aggression issues, but my friend's point is that if the trainer won't handle aggression issues than she doesn't feel comfortable with her as being able to handle "anything that might come up" and she'd rather deal with someone who can handle anything.

I've talked to the trainer who said she is a trainer not an animal behaviorist, and she does refer people with aggression issues to behaviorists.

I think she's smart to play to her strengths, and maybe it's a liability issues as well, I don't know. She did say as an aside that many dogs with aggression issues had owners who were harder to communicate with and that often they created or fostered the aggression in the dogs in the first place and she'd rather not have to deal with aggressive owners as well!

What do you think? Do you think there's something weird about a trainer refusing to work with aggression issues?

"A mans' got to know his limitations"...Clint Eastwood

There's no rule saying she has to deal with aggressive dogs. Maybe she's afraid, or just doesn't know what to do. She's partially right that aggressive dogs are a behavioral issue...it is still a training issue as well.

The vast majority of owners with aggressive dogs I deal with are not hard to communicate with. They are very nice, well educated folks who just dont know. I teach them how to speak doggy language and then move on to the next one. Not a big deal. The hardest part is not getting bit (which occasionally happens), maybe thats what she's afraid of.

Howard

 Quote: howard knauf

There's no rule saying she has to deal with aggressive dogs. Maybe she's afraid, or just doesn't know what to do.

Maybe, but she does own a Pit Bull that she adopted and rehabilitated when the owner had scheduled to have him euthanized because of his aggression. He's a lovely dog now and she has such an ease with dogs. I'm thinking that perhaps it's liability but who knows?

She did tell me that "if you have general medical concerns, you go to a doctor. If you have specific serious medical concerns, you go to a specialist." In the case of serious aggression, she said someone should go to a behaviorist that is especially qualified to deal with aggression. Do you think that's sound advice?

I guess I was just wondering it's uncommon for general trainers not to deal with human aggressive dogs. I should have specified that, because she will work with dogs that are dog or animal aggressive.

Are there any obedience trainers on this board that have this policy?

I'm not going to stop training with her-she's excellent, but I think my friend is missing out on a great trainer for a very silly reason, since her dog is non-aggressive, but I wanted some info before I talked to her. For all I know, my friend is right and it IS a strange policy.

Thanks for your response, Howard.

PS- What is the difference between a trainer and a behaviorist exactly?

 Quote: saramilliken

PS- What is the difference between a trainer and a behaviorist exactly?

They can and do overlap, but some behaviorists define it by saying that the trainer teaches sit-stay-come-down (and much more advanced training, too, of course), etc., while the behaviorist deals with issues like aggression, anxiety, etc. Of course, the behaviorist often incorporates obedience training into the "fix."

 Quote: SaraMilliken

I guess I was just wondering it's uncommon for general trainers not to deal with human aggressive dogs.

IME, it's not uncommon.

Well, I've trained a *lot* of aggressive dogs in the past, it's how I earned my living. And I know that I was one of only a few trainers that would handle aggressive dogs since my clients oftened traveled from other states to bring their dogs to me.

But......you can hardly charge a client enough to cover the risks involved. Training these type of animals is not for the faint-of-heart and it requires a huge sub-set of skills to do correctly. And most "behaviorist" have only book knowledge and usually no training skills at all, so they inform the owner on what steps to take and the owner assumes all the risk of those actions. Which often has a bad outcome ( read..."dogbite" ).

And finally I saw a simple truth....... many "aggressive" dog problems are owner related, so even if you repair the problem you'll often see that dog again for yet another problem that yep, you guessed it, the owner helped create. And just like Sara said, the owners tended to have their own set of "problems" that didn't make them ideal clients.

Tell your friend to find a trainer that deals with aggressive dogs and let them know that they may need to travel to another state or even region of the U.S. to get the problem fixed by an expert. And research the trainer *before* hand and check references very closely.

Sara, all I can say is I wouldn't WANT every dog trainer to handle/train an aggressive dog. I don't believe most are capable of that. It's unrealistic to expect that of a dog trainer that trains basics and advanced training.

Almost anyone can learn to teach sit, down, come, stay, heel, shake, catch, whatever...none of these things qualifies a person to handle an aggressive dog.

Your friend is missing out, IMO.

What Will and Howard said....

This thread defines my life with Bruno. When we got him we knew nothing of dog training, let alone an aggressive dog. Many of his problems were basically encouraged by us and our lack of pack structure etc. I tried a different forumn specifically for chow's and while trying to decifer which advice was good and which was bad I had to deal with the sarcastic, combative non-sense that doesn't help with training one bit.

My wife found Leerburg and at first we thought it was a "Beat your dog" method so we stayed clear.

We took Bruno to a behaviorist and she observed his behavior for about 60 minutes in her office and gave us some good pointers. Pretty much she read Bruno and told showed us how our "EVERYTHING" determined his behavior. She then helped us change a bit to better approach training our dog.

Most of what she said didn't help and we came back to Leeerburg and really dug and asked questions. Tried to overlook the few who would rather insult than help and found a large number of people with experience plus the experience of Ed.

We took all of what we thought was the best info, a little from the behaviorist, allot from Leerburg and also joined a dog training club.

Just realized I'm ramlbing. I think most trainers just train dogs because it takes a very dedicated, in tune, person to deal with a dominant or dangerous animal and most people in general want nothing to do with them. That's why so many people suggested I put Bruno down. Ed even says "Not verbatim" most dogs euthenized for dominance could have been a decent pet if the owners learned the importance of pack structure and how to REALLY live with a dog.

I think the behaviorist helped change us, not Bruno, but my hat goes off to Ed and the many people on this site who supported my family and Bruno while we learned how to get along. You guys are priceless.

Will,

Now that you mention it. There are very few in my area that will work with aggressive dogs. You are 100% right that it is mainly the owners' fault. I can't tell you how many times a dog has gone for me or just plain out and out went nuts while the whole time the owner sat petrified by the spectacle. They fear their own dogs. Fortunately I haven't had but a couple repeat clients. I do keep in contact with them to see how things are going and periodically drop in if I'm in the neighborhood to see for myself.

I've had a couple dogs revert back because of the owner. They wouldn't call me back because they were embarrassed. I did my part. Thats all you can do. As far as the owners with problems...mainly its because they treat their dogs like children or because they are weak spirited and poor pack leaders out of ignorance. In the dog world thats a problem.

Howard