puppy kindergarden question
#145171 - 06/17/2007 05:07 PM |
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Hi All,
I have a 10 week old female gsd I've enrolled in puppy kindergarden. I'm mostly using it for socialization purposes. The instructor is teaching sit down come and stay using positive motivation with food. She also is emphisizing the look command or eye contact. I agree with her methods to a point. I've been going to the class for 2 weeks now. I have a few problems with a few things she is teaching.. The first is that she endorses puppy play time. For about 10 minutes she tells the class to take leash and collars off dogs and let them just run around and play. I have a hard time with this.. Everything I have read says this is a bad idea for various reasons. I tend to believe more bad can come from this than good. I kinda feel uncomfortable about this and thus far I have refused to let my pup participate.. The instructor was kinda snobby when I told her I wasnt gonna let my pup do this.. Although she did let me just sit there. She said its fine for a pup up until like 16 weeks of age. I want my pup to be neutral around other dogs. My pup also barks at the other dogs. I don't think its an agressive bark but I don't like it. What do you guys think? How can I get Miera to not bark at other dogs? do you think I should participate? Oh one more thing that I didnt feel comfortable with. She says she teaches the calm technique. She demonstrated it on someone elses pup. She took the pup close to her and put her elbow on the pups back leg held her to her with that arm along the pups body and the other hand she held on the pups head close to her. The pup struggled and she sayed calm until the pup stopped squirming. Isnt this like a modified alpha roll? also she put the pup on its side and did a similar technique. I don't think its necessary.. I'm not going to let her do it to my pup.. Any ideas or comments would be appreciated.. Thanks in advance..
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Re: puppy kindergarden question
[Re: David Chase ]
#145181 - 06/17/2007 06:01 PM |
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I wouldn't let this bizarre puppy strangler anywhere near my dog. Go with your gut instincts! This is YOUR puppy. Sounds like you have the common sense to do more good on your own. I'd just quit the class, since you're not participating anyway. There are way better avenues to accomplish your goals, and this forum is a good place to start. I'd like to see her credentials; beware that many "trainers" don't really have any business interacting with their own animals, let alone others'. (This could be said about many professions, but right now we're talking trainers.) You only get one shot at raising your puppy right.
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Re: puppy kindergarden question
[Re: David Chase ]
#145182 - 06/17/2007 06:02 PM |
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She's just an infant. IMO its too early for structured class. Since she's there however...you are feeling uncomfortable with some of the methods. Go with your instincts. If you are getting anything out of the class at this point, stay but keep her out of those activities you are uncomfortable with.
I think at this age, its important to bond with her (you and her alone). Don't get me wrong, I know that socialization is essential. But (IMO) there are other less stressful ways (for both of you). Just my 2 cents.
Perhaps you could talk to the instructor and see if you could take a rain check and bring her back when she is 4 or 5 months.
I'm starting a structured class (K-9 Manners) with Heidi at the end of this month when she is 6 months old. She's doing really well with what she has learned from me: sit, down, come, even stay at this point (without distraction). Its time for her.
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Re: puppy kindergarden question
[Re: Barbara Henslee ]
#145197 - 06/17/2007 07:54 PM |
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I'd stick in the class. When the others are doing puppy play, you can work on attention/focus. The way to work on the puppy barking is by asking for attention.
Teaching a pup to calm itself is great - but not in that way. Just step on the leash and wait til the pup settles, then pay. If it struggles, it is arguing with the leash, not with you, Like a modified form of "hitching."
A dog trainer really should never do anything with your dog. The trainer is teaching the people, not training the dogs.
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Re: puppy kindergarden question
[Re: Anne Vaini ]
#145255 - 06/18/2007 11:03 AM |
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It sounds like your everyday puppy class. I was a trainer at PetsMart for years and they used 'puppy playtime' - they cut it out of the program a few years ago because they said people felt they weren't getting their money's worth.... I don't know if that's true or not. I suspect something (or thingS) happened.
When I got my last puppy I started reading everything I could on puppy socialization as I have two dog/dog aggressive dogs and wanted my new dog to not be anything like them. EVERY book I read told me to let my new puppy play with other puppies! Some of them even told me to take him to dog parks! Well, thank goD I have more commen sense than that (yes, even though I was a PetsMart instructor!).
I let my new puppy interact with other puppies who's temperaments I could see - but no off leash play time. I have my own pack at home and he can play with them when I'm there and supervising. I DID NOT take him to a dog park (and maybe the authors had something different in mind - but here the dog parks are unsupervised, uncontrolled and a free-for-all).
As for the calming - I teach something like that...but not exactly. I teach people to not teach their little dogs think that squirming will get them released (but no need to pin them to your chest!) and that large dog needs to learn this as well (but not by alpha rolling them).
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Re: puppy kindergarden question
[Re: Lee Hanrahan ]
#145256 - 06/18/2007 11:14 AM |
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The problem, to clarify, is not so much WHAT she's doing, but that it's not her place; she should, like Anne said, be showing YOU what to do. Other people don't need to be handling your puppy, especially in that manner.
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Re: puppy kindergarden question
[Re: Jenni Williams ]
#145258 - 06/18/2007 11:17 AM |
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Ah, yes - I agree. When I would teach I never had a dog with me (especially in a puppy class). So I would have to demo on someone's dog if necessary - but not something like that.
We did however play 'pass the puppy' so that the puppies were handled by other people in the class. Treats, scratches etc... If a dog looked stressed I took it away and gave it back to it's owner.
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Re: puppy kindergarden question
[Re: Lee Hanrahan ]
#145262 - 06/18/2007 11:29 AM |
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So much of deciding if this is "right or wrong" is what the OP wants out of the dog. For example, if it's PP, then he'd want to get him away from that class. If it's a well-adjusted pet, then stay, but remember the dog belongs to him, not the trainer. She has zero right to "get snobby" when he politely refuses to participate in something that makes him uncomfortable.
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Re: puppy kindergarden question
[Re: David Chase ]
#145263 - 06/18/2007 11:34 AM |
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Thanks for all the great advise guys.. I appreciate it.. I want to do the right thing with this pup and from what I understand the first 6 mths to a year is very critical in how your pup will interact with the rest of the world. Thats why I'm trying to lay the groundwork for her now..I think I will do as you guys suggested and pass on the puppy free for all and the calm technique. I'd much rather use the In my arms technique.. We did do the pass the puppy which I didnt have a problem with.. Miera was good with other people so that made me happy.. She does like to bark at other dogs though.. I'm trying to figure out if its aggressive barking or just a silicitation to play... She's very sure of herself for the most part and she has a pretty strong bark..Its somewhere between the puppy yipp and the defensive bark. I guess when she barks I should just redirect her. I don't think I should yell or try to calm her as this might be reenforcing this action. Thanks again.. I'm so glad I found this site..
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Re: puppy kindergarden question
[Re: Jenni Williams ]
#145264 - 06/18/2007 11:35 AM |
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Definitely Jenni!
As I said, I taught 'pet' puppy classes (and still do) for 6 years at PetsMart (and now do it on my own) - no one in my classes ever had visions of doing anything more than agility with their dog. But yet, the number of people who would do annoying things because they knew more than I did was abundant!! LOL
I took my latest to a PetsMart puppy class (hey, it was free!) and I did exactly what I thought was best for MY puppy and MY goals. Sometimes it's hard to go against the crowd - but when you know why you're doing it then you stick to your guns!
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