I know that this will just be anecdotal evidence, but does anyone know of any dogs that suffered from bloat while on a RAW diet?

It's just that I hear some many contradictory things about feeding RAW and feeding in general with regard to bloat.

* Feed once a day (it's good to let the digestive system rest).
* Feed twice a day (once a day is a cause of bloat).
* Let them gorge on a meal (like a whole pork picnic roast) then fast them for a day or two. This mimics wolves in the wild.
* Raw fed dogs don't bloat, which is why one meal a day and occasional gorge meals are OK.
* Don't exercise your dog before and after meals.
* Exercise your dog before meals is OK (after all, wolves need to chase and catch prey) but make sure they rest after meals.
* Don't exercise before meals, but give them light exercise after meals.
* (I'll skip the whole BARF vs. prey model, since that has been discussed ad infinitum.)

I keep my dog (a non-working Dobe, just a family pet) as close to the prey model as possible, though I do supplement since I don't have ready access to eyeballs and brains and such. However, I do divide his meals into twice a day for fear of bloat. Honestly, it would be more convenient for me if I could throw him a 2 1/2 to 3 pound chunk of meat/bone once a day as opposed to cutting everything up. I like the idea of throwing a 3 pound fryer chicken on the ground and letting him get to work, say once a day in the evening after our dinner. Or feed him a 6 pound pork picnic one day and then fast him the next day.

Right now, I also exercise him before each meal (on the treadmill), and then crate him afterwards for an hour to rest.

Does anyone know if wolves die of bloat in the wild as a result of getting vigorous exercise catching their prey and then gorging afterwards? If I apply the no exercise before eating and twice a day feeding advice, it seems to go against what happens in the wild.

Am I overthinking this?

Thanks,
Joe

Joe: yes, raw-fed dogs can certainly bloat.

It's more of a genetic issue though and it tends to run in families. The dogs - raw and kibble fed ones - that I know of who bloated all had a family history of this problem.

I make sure my dogs don't exercise right after a large meal; I'll make them wait a couple of hours before any strenuous activity. I don't always feed twice a day. Sometimes I'll even let them gorge and then fast them for a day or two (only adult dogs, I don't fast puppies).

My male's breeder does this gorging and fasting frequently (using whole deer carcasses ) and has never had a problem with her dogs.


Kibble feeding does add to the risk of bloat in susceptible dogs because the kibble expands so much in the stomach. Of course kibble is filled with so much crap that it certainly doesn't make the digestion process easy for any dog

All the things you're doing are helpful in reducing the risk.

I wouldn't worry about letting the dog gorge every now and again, as long as he can handle it. The problem you're most likely to encounter with him - if he has a sensitive tummy - is an upset digestive system with a lot of loose stools...

I'd start slowly and cautiously with the larger portions. Good luck.

My 8 year old male GSD died of bloat on 8th June...

He was fed a complete dried food for his entire life..

I never fed him 2 hours before or after exercise....

One morning, he bloated, was rushed to the vets, they operated and he died...

I was devastated....but nothing I could have done would have prevented what happened.

 Quote: Gary Garner

My 8 year old male GSD died of bloat on 8th June...

I'm so sorry. :>(

Wolves do indeed pig out and then take a siesta.

I had read this several times, but then the UC Gray Wolf Project videos (long-distance film-making) showed this.

Also, if they take down a big animal, they will stick to that area for as long as it's safe and as long as there is no nerve-wracking competition for it, eating and napping, eating and napping.

A lone wolf will eat much smaller prey and not have the gorging opportunity.

It's pretty hard to compare a dog who has a steady and reliable source of food to wolves, who do not.

I do take from the gray wolf videos a couple of things, though: If they can do so safely, they nap rather than roam after eating; when they take smaller prey they do eat it in its entirety, and they also eat some of the stomach contents of large ruminants.

(Besides those stomach contents, they also eat some young greens and ripe berries; they scavenge on fallen fruit, which we would consider overripe, and which is "digesting" in its own enzymes.)

At least, the ones in the videos did. That's not to say that all wolves behave exactly the same.

 Quote: Connie Sutherland

 Quote: Gary Garner

My 8 year old male GSD died of bloat on 8th June...

I'm so sorry. :>(

Thanks for your kind words...

I'm still upset about losing the big guy... I've been a cop for 10 years and a soldier before that for 6 years... Yet nothing could stop the tears..when he died...

 Quote: yuko blum

I wouldn't worry about letting the dog gorge every now and again, as long as he can handle it. The problem you're most likely to encounter with him - if he has a sensitive tummy - is an upset digestive system with a lot of loose stools...

Hmm, either you consciously remembered, or it's in your subconscious, but Harley had major problems with loose stools that we hashed out on this very forum. I'm glad you brought this up, because he's been so good recently that I actually forgot about this history! I finally weaned him off probiotics and I can mix up meats daily without issue. Maybe I should leave well-enough alone and keep feeding him twice a day. It's just that rationalizing the once-a-day program aligned well with my desire to be lazy. It's not often that that happens.

 Quote: connie sutherland

At least, the ones in the videos did. That's not to say that all wolves behave exactly the same.

I wonder what twisted understanding of dogs aliens would have if they observed my eccentric boy and extrapolated his actions to the rest of the species. "Aside from his twice-a-day feedings, dogs like to supplement their diet with grass, twigs, and rocks. They usually vomit out the rocks and twigs as soon as they eat them, which could be some cleansing mechanism, since they seem to do it over and over again despite the apparent unpleasantness of the action. Dogs also like to engage in intense sprints around their territory immediately following a bowel movement, as if the bowel movement was the greatest thing that happened to them and they could hardly contain their excitement as a result."

 Quote: Gary Garner

I'm still upset about losing the big guy... I've been a cop for 10 years and a soldier before that for 6 years... Yet nothing could stop the tears..when he died...

8 years old is just too young for a companion to pass away, especially when it comes out of the blue. I'm really sorry to hear about that.

This is one of the reasons I'm so concerned about bloat.

I lost my 8 yr old a couple years ago and had the same reaction as Gary. In a old post of mine in a bloat thread, I wrote:

"Lost my 8-yr-old GSD last year to bloat. Rocco had been on a raw diet for ~5 yrs. and was pretty inactive due to a bad hip, so none of the "usual" exercise/kibble factors. My vet had no explanation for it. In a previous thread here a while back, there was some mention of a study that indicated that stress could be a contributing factor.

Seemed to fit in my case. About 4-5 days before he died, Rocco started having 1-2 nosebleeds a day. Vet found nothing on exam and x-ray. He scheduled a biopsy as he suspected some nasal cancer/tumor, but Rocco died the evening before.

Stress? Yeah, between what the dog must have been feeling plus picking up on my own stress/concern, I can see that as a factor."

He got his main meal in the evening and got something like yogurt/cottage cheese/egg in the morning. I got this dog from rescue when he was 9 mos. I had no history on him. I've heard that there can be a hereditary factor. I don't believe that most of the other often-cited causes have ever been substantiated.

Mike

Gary, I'm saddened for you at the loss of your friend, and the shock you must have felt. My sincere sympathies.

Yaggo eat a 5lb roll of green tripe, and was fine, acted as if he never eat it...and then yesterday he stole 8 lbs of meat I was defrosting in the garage and eat the whole thing 4lbs of wings and 4 lbs of Chicken backs.And of course he acted as if he never eat a thing...I haven't fed him and won't until Monday.He looks as if he has gained a few LBS but other than being a thief ,he is healthy and fine.

Gary , sorry for your loss .