I did a search and came up with conflicting answers, so maybe I will get a solid answer or at least RECENT conflicting advice

A friend has a really submissive female he's had for 2 yrs. She is the only dog and is nicely trained. They adopted a younger male who is more dominant. The male seems to bully the female around & she's a bit confused. Should he let the male establish his role as alpha (among the dogs) or should he re-inforce the female as alpha? I'm not sure what to tell him here. She's not an alpha dog at all, but she has earned her keep in a sense. What do you guys think? From the search, I've heard from "let them sort it out" to "the owner is alpha and chooses the next in line"

I haven't had to deal with this problem, so can't give any advice. A while back, tho, I posted the below info in regard to dominance/pack issues. This is from a good book, "Understanding the Dog's Mind" by Fogle:

Dogs don't expect to live in equality with other dogs or with us for that matter. Democracy is a misplaced ideology in the canine world. Their minds work differently but we find this a difficult concept to accept because it's alien to the way most of us think. Kind owners who punish bully dogs and elevate submissive ones create conflict in their dogs minds because, to their thinking, what we are doing is unnatural. Jealousy over attention from the owner, possessiveness over a toy or bone, rivalry over who sleeps in the favorite spot, these are all manifestations of problems in dominance behavior where a hierarchy has not been properly established. . . Our responsibility during the juvenile period of the dog's mind is to determine which of two or more dogs is likely to be dominant over the other(s) and then give subtle rewards to that dog (like the first pat when you come home.) At the same time he must remember that you are dominant over him. The submissive dog, in the meantime, gets ignored. This attitude by us, hard as it may seem, dramatically reduces the likelihood of future fights.

HTH

Mike

---

Suppose you were an idiot.

Suppose you were a member of Congress.

But I repeat myself.

-Mark Twain

I found this *very* interesting.

I was giving his food dish to a new adoptee first for a while because he's the slowest eater and the others were inhaling theirs and then staring at him and his bowl.

The first time I read a mention of that text, I decided to feed them more in order of dominance.

I don't allow bullying from any of them (and no dog-dog aggression)..... but the petting first, feeding first, etc. -- kinda makes sense to me.

I have to read up on that.

 Quote: alex corral

I've heard from "let them sort it out" to "the owner is alpha and chooses the next in line"

"Let them sort it out" isn't really my style, FWIW, implying as it seems to that aggression is up to the dogs (and it's not, in my house).

How does the human choose next in line? Clues from the dogs, or length of time in the pack?

Seems like I read somewhere that in a household where there is one male dog and one female dog, they both tend to be on the same footing - in other words, the problems usually arise when there are two dogs of the same sex.

Since we have recently adopted a spayed female and already have a male, we are not sure how this will all play out. We learned this week from our vet that the female is closer to 3 years old (we thought she was 2 years). Nickie is only 10 months old. The dominance issue seems to come into play because (in my opinion)
-
1. Nickie outweighs Roxie by 20 lbs

2. He was in our household first

We are not letting them interact now like we did for short periods the first week we had them. In the beginning, she seemed to be more dominant, pushing him out of the way to go thru the door (of course we go thru first and then the dogs). Also when he would start with the dominant "humping" behavior, she would raise her lip or make a little growl at him. He backed off easily the first few days but kept getting bolder with her.

He is going to the vet tomorrow to be neutered so we will see how the whole thing works out in the next few weeks. In the meantime, they are out of their crates separately. Their crates are in the same room (our dining room) and they can see each other all the time with no problems whatsoever.

Mike, the excerpt you posted makes a lot of sense to me. As some may remember, my father in law has a very dominant Akita bitch and a younger rot/pit bitch who would like to be dominant. He refuses to seperate them and there have been many nasty bloody fights over the past 8 years. I have convinced him to allow the Akita in first, pet Akita first, feed her first, etc.. It seems to be working (knock wood & cross your fingers).

I found this situation particularly interesting because, I will probably be in the same spot in a year or so. I'm searching for a male puppy who will most likely be bigger and more dominant than my female. She is a very dog submissive girl too.

The info you gave Mike, makes total sense. The hardest part will be convicing my wife, when the time comes.

I'm with Connie on no aggression allowed in my house either!

I'll have to take a closer look at my friends dogs and look for more cues. Maybe his female will decide she is going to be dominant and things will be easier to decide.

Your situation is very interesting as well Diane. Keep us updated on Roxie and Nickie.

Maybe members with 3 or more dogs can chime in..

When humans try and choose who's the boss based on which is their favorite, who was here first, etc, it's all the wrong reasons.
The dogs don't have to fight it out to determine who's boss. Most times it's all about body language.

mmmmmmm....I pretty much agree with that statement. I have 7 dogs right now. Two of them are contract dogs.

My pack follows in this order.....

ME!! ME!! ME!! (Okay...Hubby is equal but I do not let him know that )

Almost 2 yr old Mal (f) intact
5 yr old Dutch (m) altered
6.5 yr old Bloodhound (m) altered
7 month old GSD (f) moved up in rank (contract dog)
7 month old GSD (m) also moved up in rank
2 yr old Lab (m) intact (he's too stupid to figure out what rank is, but MAN is he a bird dog who is HAPPY all the time )

1.5 yr old GSD (f) contract dog that is only here for a short time so she is not included in the pack. We work on socialization but she is here for trailing training and not "be with other dogs" work.

The dogs get fed, watered, kennels cleaned, hang out with me time (includes play and lots of affection) and groomed in this order (most of the time, some need more grooming than the others).

Play time consists of certain pairs or trios of dogs that get along well together....my Mal can only play well with others for about 5 minutes and then her prey drive kicks in and she forgets it is the toy she is supposed to be fetching and chewing on.
But 5 minutes a couple times a week keeps her fairly social and she would rather ignore strange dogs anyway. None of my dogs are left alone together....if I have to go, they all go back in their own kennels or crates in the house.

Working them in their different disciplines varies greatly so as not to condition them to a certain sequence of things (the only thing I condition my working dogs to is what we do leading up to going to work so that they know they need to put their game face on).

Editing to add that this order is based on how they act with each other, not my preference....if it were my preference my Bloodhound would be top dog then the Dutch, Mal, GSD pups (m before f) and the Lab would be last.......