A few days ago i did a joint training mission with The Swedish, Austrians and Germans and the training went great. One thing i notest was i was the only handler that kept my dog on leash. One of the Austrian trainers actually asked me why i kept my dog on leash. My response was pretty simple, I keep my dog on leash because it gives me maximum amount of control I am always near my dog and tell him where to search so when i finish a room i can tell the cert authority or MPI/CID/Police officers that i know 100% the room is clear. And then on the third problem the instructor broke out his dog and he had a beautiful off leash pattern. I mean it looked like the dog was working with his handler. At the end of the day i worked with a great group of handlers and a great group of dogs.

So the question of the day from me is who works on leash or off leash for detection? And why do you chose that style over the other?

in a building i do both. i will first let the dog go off leash in a room and see what he can do on his own. while he's searching off leash, i will make mental notes of areas that i feel he didn't fully investigate. then after he's done a once over off leash, i will hook him up and direct him through my pattern remembering to fully search the areas i feel he didn't search thoroughly off leash. the reason for this is when the dog is off leash away from the handler, there is less chance of a handler induced cue or less chance of me missing a very subtle behavior change that if the dog were off leash, he would go back and investigate on his own.

Don’t feel bad Mike…. About three years ago I was in the same boat with my dog. Then I went to a week long detection seminar where the instructors focused on building confidence and independence in the dogs through off lead detection work.

The issue that I keep seeing is that we are almost turning the detection work into an obedience exercise… check here, check there, check, check, check. Were squashing the dogs natural drive to hunt. We now do most of our drug work off lead even during the directed searches. The search itself has become an interactive game with the dog, not just the reward time after the find.

Matt -

I don't feel bad at all, just different training styles (at least thats how i see it) I deffently see your point about holding down the dogs drive to hunt.. pretty good point actually. I always let my dog scan but on leash (9 foot leash) he can usaly pick everything up on the scan, so much so that all the problems that have been planted for me i picked up on the scan and never had to use hand presentations and when i started doing them again he completely blew me off lol. we are good to go now :-P

Tim -

Thats pretty much what i do but i keep him on leash and scan.


OK now i have heard of some people training there dogs to follow presentations with the flash light, i was thinking about this but with a lazer pointer, anyone tried something like this? In theory it sounds pretty easy.

Mike on a car, for the outside I usually keep the dog on leash. When I let my dog search inside a vehicle it's free for all. My dog almost always after a quick sniff of the air inside, goes right to the area inside of the vehicle and then starts pinpointing. A great example was a few days ago during a stop in which we used my dog instead of my field training partners dog the dope was under the front passenger seat (Weed). I opened the door folded down the backseat and let the dog in directly to the backseat, I thought for sure the dope was in the left rear back dash where the speakers are as a result of actions by the rear passenger. I kept her on leash which I never do, and was directing her to search that area. She was giving me a hard time and was wanting to franically search elsewhere. Twice I kept redirecting her to that area and she was giving me half arce sniffs, as if to shut me up saying yeah, yeah, I searched there. When I realized it must not be there, I let her free search and she found the dope literally in about 2-3 seconds. Reaffirmed me to trust my dog. I know she works better off lead especially in a vehicle.
So what I do is I let her search off lead and direct nothing, I note the spots she has hit and the areas I might want her to check again or the ones she misssed which is rarely ever. If she finds nothing, I take her out the car. Stimulate her again, then send her back in directing her to those very few specific spots I want double checked. This reduces the time I spend directing her search. I do the same for rooms. Then again, I have a really good detection dog, she will hunt to the high heavens and rarely misses an area of the room.

~CHRIS DUHON

 Quote: Michael West

Matt -

I don't feel bad at all, just different training styles (at least thats how i see it) I deffently see your point about holding down the dogs drive to hunt.. pretty good point actually. I always let my dog scan but on leash (9 foot leash) he can usaly pick everything up on the scan, so much so that all the problems that have been planted for me i picked up on the scan and never had to use hand presentations and when i started doing them again he completely blew me off lol. we are good to go now :-P

Tim -

Thats pretty much what i do but i keep him on leash and scan.


OK now i have heard of some people training there dogs to follow presentations with the flash light, i was thinking about this but with a lazer pointer, anyone tried something like this? In theory it sounds pretty easy.

i have never heard of using a flashlight or laser for dope work. i know some SWAT dog handlers use a laser to point the doors that he wants the dog to check and i've heard they have good results with this method.

i don't know what the advantage would be in a dope search...

 Quote: Tim Martens

 Quote: Michael West

Matt -

I don't feel bad at all, just different training styles (at least thats how i see it) I deffently see your point about holding down the dogs drive to hunt.. pretty good point actually. I always let my dog scan but on leash (9 foot leash) he can usaly pick everything up on the scan, so much so that all the problems that have been planted for me i picked up on the scan and never had to use hand presentations and when i started doing them again he completely blew me off lol. we are good to go now :-P

Tim -

Thats pretty much what i do but i keep him on leash and scan.


OK now i have heard of some people training there dogs to follow presentations with the flash light, i was thinking about this but with a lazer pointer, anyone tried something like this? In theory it sounds pretty easy.

i have never heard of using a flashlight or laser for dope work. i know some SWAT dog handlers use a laser to point the doors that he wants the dog to check and i've heard they have good results with this method.

i don't know what the advantage would be in a dope search...

There are a few advantages but nothing major. The main thing is for VCP's at night you can guide your dog by using the flash light. The problem i have is the beam is a bit too wide and spread out. The laser would be good for crisp presentations and to places where it isent easy for you to walk but the dog can get too.

that is a great idea about it being used for tactics but thats for a different topic forum. :-D

 Quote:

We now do most of our drug work off lead even during the directed searches. The search itself has become an interactive game with the dog, not just the reward time after the find.

How? If the the dog is searching off lead how can this be interactive with its handler without breaking the dog's concentration or interrupting its drive?

For those that search off lead, do your dogs follow a set pattern or do they just freely roam the respective search area? And, if the dogs are following a specific searching pattern how did you trian for this? PM please??

Michael, as far as your flashligh being too wide, try a black filter with a small opening. This will not allow all the light to shine from the bulb and create a smaller field. If you shape it like a cone then the light that does escape will be in a sharper circle as well.

 Quote: chris duhon

Mike on a car, for the outside I usually keep the dog on leash. When I let my dog search inside a vehicle it's free for all. My dog almost always after a quick sniff of the air inside, goes right to the area inside of the vehicle and then starts pinpointing. A great example was a few days ago during a stop in which we used my dog instead of my field training partners dog the dope was under the front passenger seat (Weed). I opened the door folded down the backseat and let the dog in directly to the backseat, I thought for sure the dope was in the left rear back dash where the speakers are as a result of actions by the rear passenger. I kept her on leash which I never do, and was directing her to search that area. She was giving me a hard time and was wanting to franically search elsewhere. Twice I kept redirecting her to that area and she was giving me half arce sniffs, as if to shut me up saying yeah, yeah, I searched there. When I realized it must not be there, I let her free search and she found the dope literally in about 2-3 seconds. Reaffirmed me to trust my dog.

~CHRIS DUHON

Chris, If the moral of this story isn't "trust your dog" then i don't know what is :-D another thing, what do you do to motivate your dog before a search? I also pretty much let me dog go where ever he wants in small spaces i don't like crowding him. I consider my dog well rounded and amazing all around. I have had a few comments from people i work with saying he is the best narc dog they have worked with (yes i typed that in there for my ego)

 Quote: Brad.Martin

For those that search off lead, do your dogs follow a set pattern or do they just freely roam the respective search area? And, if the dogs are following a specific searching pattern how did you trian for this? PM please??

Brad, i have seen both and needless to say i am not a fan of the whole wondering around aimlessly thing. But if you ever see a dog keep pattern by him self, well thats a very very impressive site to see.

Mike I take her out the vehicle step back from it, put her in heel and reach my right hand around my back like I'm getting her toy (I raised and trained her so she knows this body posture means I'm getting her toy) then I put my hand balled up in a fist right in front of her and very quickly like as in fast move my hand away from her and spin away from her to until I get my body blocking her view than I show her my empty hands and tell her in my voice that motivates her, "Where's it at, huh, where's it at girl, come on go get it, and I redirect her in the car to the areas I want her to double check. To keep her believing this I actually do it with the ball in training and instead of it "disappearing" I do the spin letting her chase it then throw it, so when I do this for real, she really gets excited because normally I have the ball.

~CHRIS D