Let me start of by saying I am new here and love all the new found knowledge I am finding on this site. I just got the basic obedience and dealing with dominant aggressive dogs dvds and am in the process of working with my 2 dobermans.

We have a 2 1/2 year old female and 3 months ago we got a 1 year old male from a rescue.

In the last few weeks my male has become fearful of cars that pass by and of people walking by us. (i'm guessing its fear.. he will start barking and whining jumping and spinning and gets very excited.) I try giving him the leave it command and a correction when turns looking towards the car or the person walking in the other direction. When we first got him from the rescue he walked very well on the leash and never displayed any fear of cars. Other than this he walks well on a leash but as soon as he sees a car starting to come he starts this up and the sounds he makes sound as if you are beating him.

Was kind of wondering if any of this could be some kind of insecurity about his place in the pack? We just recently really started working with him and my female on obedience because they were starting to fight. Up to this point I now realize they didn't see me as a pack leader and they were fighting for that position. Now with the help of these dvds and the information on the site I am trying to change this.

Any help will be greatly appreciated.

Hi Brady,

The squabbles between your dogs and your rescue's challenges of the pack structure are to be expected at his age, I commend you for meeting the challenge head on. You are on the right track in building your leadership skills.

As far as this new behavior on walks, I am not getting a clear picture of your dog. Can you offer any more detail? What is his body language? Is he cowering or pulling forward to get to the distraction? What is his ear set? Does he try to grab the leash? When jumping is he making contact with you? Is there any fur up on his back? Also the whining that is going on does he make that sound at other times? When stressed or excited?

Sorry, no answers, lots of questions,....not that I am sure I will even have any advice to give based on the answers but there are many knowledgeable people on board who will be able to help.

Also thanks for rescuing and giving a dog a second chance.

I'm only guessing here but based on your description of your Dobe's behaviour (spinning, whining, barking) it sounds like he may be more excited than fearful. I haven't seen a Doberman spin when they are fearful, but have seen a whole kennel full spin from excitement as I've walked down the aisle between the runs. And it usually is accompanied by the squeaky whine or occasional bark. It sounds like your guy could use more exercise. I would keep correcting for giving attention to cars, etc. You may not be correcting hard enough if it's not getting through. but I would make sure to reward with food or a toy when you get that attention. He needs to find you more interesting and exciting than the distractions he's getting worked up about.
The fighting is pretty disconcerting though. I would crate them both and work with them separately. There is TONS of info on this site about how to introduce dogs and manage multiple dogs in a household. Hopefully someone who knows more than I do on this subject will chime in. Fighting is never okay and should not be allowed to occur.

Edited by Kristel Smart (07/31/2007 08:22 AM)
Edit reason: wanted to add a reason

Sheila to answer your questions he is usually pulling toward the car and he hasn't grabbed the leash yet. he has made contact with me a few times. Haven't noticed his earset of fur on his back will try to watch him closer today. It does seem like Kristel said that he seems more excited than fearful. Maybe it could be he needs more exercise since he hasn't been running in the backyard half the day with my female, but we are walking 2+ miles a day. We don't allow them out together for long periods since the fight. I do crate them and work with them seperately and also walk them seperately. The fight they got in was I was playing with a frisbee with them both together ( I know realize was not a smart thing to do and don't do anymore). But the took turns getting the frisbee (mostly if he would chase it my female would let him have it). She retrieve the frisbee once and as i was getting ready to throw it again he jumped on her and the fight started. Since i have read many of Eds ebooks and realized all the dominant posturing that he has been doing and we have been correcting him on this.
Since we have had no fights and they seem to be getting along alot better. I only wish I would have found this site months ago to help with their introduction or even early to have a better trained female before we got him. But thats hindsight. I am now ready to work to achieve this with them both and make us a happy pack.
Thank you both for your input.

It sounds like you're doing a great job. It's really tough to get enough exercise for a Dobe that age; at one, they are SO energetic yet you're still in a place where you need to be careful of all those growing joints. Walking is great. Tiring him out mentally with training games might help too. Can you play frisbee with them separately? I wouldn't do too much of it because of his age, but a few minutes of frisbee in addition to the walking and training may be enough to take some of that edge off. Keep up the great work!

Ok I tried throwing the frisbee a little bit for him and working on some training before we went on our walk. As far as cars go it seemed today if i stop and have him off the road i can give him the leave it command and a correction and he doesn't get quite as excited. Although there was an older man riding a bike today that came by and as he got excited and i would give him the command and correction then the man started yelling at me telling me i needed a choke collar on that dog and Sabre went nuts and actually dig bite and pull on the leash. Then the third time the man came buy when sabre spun barking i got nipped in the leg.

To answer another one of Sheila's questions his ears are up when he is doing this and no fur standing.

It seems now as though it is mostly excitement. Because even after a car has gone by he will let out little yelps and seems to want to run.

Did i ruin him by letting him run with me while i was riding a bike a few times? This was about 1 month ago? (Before i knew that it was a bad idea for a dog of this age.) Should i try walking him on some of the backroads in our subdivision where i am less likely to see a car? Right now we have a circle we make that is just over 2 miles but if it would be better i could walk him back and forth down the same road where it would be less likely to see a car.

He use to be so easy to walk and now is becoming a pain. I know most of this is probably my fault. Just never thought i would see the day when Sadie (my strong willed female) would be my favorite to walk.

Dogs will do what they want with who they think will let them.
I am not nearly as experienced as some of the members here and I am not going to try and give you advice. But it seems to me that the dog is pushing buttons and not respecting you. It also seems like he is pushing it father and farther each time. I would seriously look at your pack structure and how he views you, as he clearly does not take you seriously.Read Eds articles on pack structure, dealing with dominant dogs and introducing a new dog into your home.
One last thing, what kind of a collar are you walking him on? If you are walking him on a flat collar you might want to think about trying a prong (I could be wrong with the prong, it might agitate him more) collar or e collar. I don't think your corrections mean anything to him right now.
I hope someone can give you some good advice
And kudos to you for rescuing

Okay...definetly excitement then. It sounds like he's wanting to chase the cars and bikes. I don't think you ruined him by riding your bike with him, but it did give him the idea that bikes are to run with. It sounds like he really enjoyed it; but you're right, he's still too young. In a year or so it may be something to consider doing with him. But in the meantime (and always thereafter) he needs to learn to make the distinction between running with you, and chasing all bikes. As far as what the 'interloper' said to you, it can be ignored as rudeness. I would take your guy to a much less stimulating place to walk until he gets the idea that he can't chase. If you can find a place where an occasional car goes by, or even a rare bike, and you can position yourself at a distance from these things you may find more success. It will give you a chance to desensitize him until you're able to get on top of this behaviour. Then, gradually you can move a little closer. If he tries to grab for the leash give him a firm 'no' and a pop on the leash. Are you using a prong collar? If not, you should consider investing in one. They can really make a difference. I wouldn't consider trying to walk a young, male Dobe without one. I'm glad that you keep posting....it makes it easier to get a bead on things. Did your dog nip you intentionally? Or was he making a grab for the leash at the time?

Thank you for all your input Kristel. Yes I use a prong collar on both of our Dobes. I believe when i got nipped it wasn't intentional it was either him going for the leash or i got caught mid bark as he was spining towards the bike. He has never showed any type of aggression towards me and seems to be a fairly soft dog as far as the amount of correction he needs in other parts of his training. I'm going to try and walk him on a road that i believe will not be quite as busy and see what happens.

Excellent on all counts. Great that he's not showing aggression; it still hurts to be in the line of fire when they're wound up, but much less of a problem. All good.
Please keep posting and let us know how it goes in a quieter area. Good job, and good luck!