Hi there, I would like some advice about a "sit" issue we are having. First of all, I am 110% sure my 8 mo old GSD knows the "sit" command, so we are working in the correction/distraction phase. When I tell him to sit for me, before I open the door or before crossing the street, etc., he doesn't do it until I say, "No." He knows what I am asking, because I don't have to tell him to sit again, he does it after I give him the verbal "No" correction. It's very rare for him to wait for the next correction, which is a pop on the leash.
I train with markers and am confident with my timing. I always mark the moment his rear touches the ground and follow up with a reward (praise, treat, game, etc.). Does he do this just because he is somewhat of a "hard" dog, hoping that there is a chance he can get out of the command? Is there a way to correct this or is it necessary? Would it be unfair to skip the verbal "No" command and instead give him a low level leash correction to fix this? Maybe I am asking too much, but it is annoying because we probably do this 30 times a day! Hmmm, maybe that's why he does it! ;O)
I should probably add that I am putting some pressure on him for signs of dominance/agression. Luckily, I found this website about a month ago, bought several dvds, and learned what to look for.
Thanks a bunch for any advice!
Tracy

Hey Tracy!

Sounds like you're doing everything right, timing-wise. I guess your dog doesn't think that the "no" correction is too bad. Clearly he knows to avoid the leash correction.

I would absolutely skip the no and go directly to a leash pop.
Might be a good idea to give him a second or so to obey the command before correcting though - it's only fair, dogs aren't robots

Any pictures of your guy?

Does the dog fail to obey in different locations? I mean, is the command totally understood, but only, say, in the kitchen and on the porch?

Also, does the dog (maybe) now think that "no" is part of the whole command on the curb and at the door?

What I would consider would be to take the dog to the doorway and train the sit from the beginning right there, just to make sure the dog isn't just uncertain about the "sit" venue. (Yes, I have seen this. ) This happens when the handler trains every day in one spot, or maybe two, and then sees failure to comply when the command is given in a new context.

Just to add to what Yuko Blum said.

It does sound like your dog has learned that he only needs to sit after you say no. And as Connie said make sure he dosent think "no" is part of or the last part of the command.

What i would do is go to a new spot tell him to "Sit" wait 2 full seconds give a sharp "NO" and a crisp pop on the leash at the same time. You always want to give both the verbal and phisical correction at the same time. So later on down the road when he knows better if you just give him the verbal he will feel very lucky not to be getting the phisical.

But thats just me.

Thanks so much for your responses! Yes, he does the same thing, waits until I tell him no, in all places that I tell him to sit. By the way, I give him 2 or 3 seconds to sit before the "no". I make him sit every day, in many different locations, for all sorts of things... before getting in and out of the car, (he rides with me almost every day), before I put his food bowl down and before he gets a treat. He has to sit many times a day for putting on or taking off his leash and collars. We do this alot, as I have been introducing him to the remote collar and dominant dog collar, plus his prong collar goes on and off... along with switching out his leash and long lines, LOL.
I tried something with him earlier to help determine if he thinks the word "no" is part of the command. After saying "sit", then pausing for a couple of seconds, (if he didn't sit) then I said "sit" again instead of "no" and he sat. When he does sit, either the first or second time I tell him, he is verrrry slow and reluctant about it.
I also noticed tonight that he does the same thing on his downs. I guess this means he's stalling? He is very good with his sit stays and down stays, it's just getting him there. Which brings me to another question I had. What do you think would be appropriate for the maximum amount of time for an 8 month old to be kept in a "stay"? With the recommendation for training time being only 1 to 3 minutes a session, it only gives us time to do about 2 down or sit stays.
Thanks so much for taking the time to help me, looking forward to learning more! Yuko, here's a picture of "Oscar" 2 months ago, when he was 6 months old. Hopefully I can remember how to do html to get it to show up below. I need to upload my more recent pictures soon.
<p><center>
<img src="http://members.aol.com/hartshape2/Oscar/May088.jpg">
</center>

Maybe your dog is bored and is becoming resistant with the same commands over and over. Try other forms of mental stimulation with him; learning new commands, keeping him enthusiastic while learning, keeping him in drive, motivating him. The reward is the motivator; that's what makes the dog want to obey.

Trying to get a dog to obey when he's bored stiff is, to me, not only difficult for both handler and dog, but also unfair to the dog. A dog needs to be put "in the mood" (put in drive). If he's not paying attention, motivate him before giving him a command. Your dog is still very young and needs excitement while learning.

Even adult dogs work best when they're in drive and they know reward is sure to come.

Everything you do now is imprinting your dog for the future. Boring him now with the same command over and over is not going to bode well for future training and for learning new commands. Keep him excited while learning and doing.

Remember to always reward after a correction, when he obeys after being corrected.

Edited to add: what do you mean when you say aggression and dominance? Sometimes both those terms are misunderstood and if a dog is being corrected for either when he's really neither is a big mistake.

Sounds like your dog understands what you are asking of him… he’s choosing not to listen and so far it sounds like there is no consequence to his ignoring you. If you give the dog the option of complying after the second or third attempt you are just going to condition him to not listen to you the first time.
Since your dog understands the command it needs to be followed with either praise or a correction. Consistency is key!

As far as doing too many sits… If you are making the game fun for the dog it shouldn’t matter how many sits you are doing… The dog wants drive satisfaction.. the sit is the path to that satisfaction if you are incorporating drive work into your obedience. (The only way to go IMO)

Sandy I think you are correct! With the every day routines where he is required to sit, I'm not motivating him at all. I can't believe I missed the obvious. When we go outside and train more "formally", I try to be very creative with the motivation and rewards, and he does very well by the way. I can't believe I've been dismissing it entirely with our daily routines, which are probably even more important, as they are much of the foundation of the rest of the training. Oh and I am very consistant with rewarding after a correction, with obedience and anytime I have to stop him from doing something inappropriate.

In order to keep the boards tidy and "on topic", I will start a new post under Dominance and Aggression to address what I have been experiencing with Oscar. So look for it there, it will be kinda long!

Thanks a bunch! ;O)

Hi Mr. Grubb, what should the consequence be? I think I perceived the corrections from the video "narrow-mindedly". I thought I should always give a verbal "no" first and if he still doesn't comply, then a leash correction. I am very consistant with either a praise or a correction and then a praise, however, I'm not correcting properly. I do remember something very important... there are exceptions to every rule. This is probably an exception, as it's becoming a pattern for him to not comply until the "no", yet before "the yank".

I believe I can eliminate much of this problem by working on drive and motivation. You are so right! Being that he is somewhat of a "hard" dog, I may run into some of this at times, so please advise me on the corrections.

Thanks a bunch! ;O)

I have posted my concern of dominance and aggression under the forum "Dog Behavioral Problems", then under the topic "Dominant Dog Issues" and titled it "Dominance and Aggression Issues .... Long" for anyone who would like to read it. Thanks!