Hello, I've been reading all kinds of posts on here and want to introduce myself and thank everyone for all the help already!
My husband and I just got our first black lab puppy (he'll be 3 months on friday) and we are having a great time with him, but I have a concern about food/environment allergies and wonder what you guys can tell me...

We noticed he's had a rash on his belly where there's no fur pretty much since we got him, but it didn't seem to be bothering him, so we didn't think much of it. Recently, though, he has seemed to be itching more and it's not going away, so we took him to the vet yesterday. Found out he has yeast infections in both his ears, which we got drops for and cleaning solution. The vet also gave us antibiotics for the rash.

I've read on this site that both could be linked to food, so a note about food: after I started reading Ed's website and this board I looked into what I was feeding him (Eukanuba unfortunately!), so I immediately switched him to Royal Canin's Sensible Choice for puppies (it was recommended by our local 'natural' pet store). I gradually switched him over in the past week, so he's only been eating that one for a few days.

My question is, do I give him the antibiotics? I'm afraid to add another possible chemical irritant to his system while we are trying to figure out if/what he's allergic to, especially since we have the 12 week puppy vaccinations scheduled for next week... Any thoughts/suggestions you guys have would be much appreciated! We just want to get him healthy... he is otherwise a very happy and energetic pup!

Thanks!

Hi Meghan,

I wouldn't say that the dog has allergies from only seeing a rash. It could possibly be that he is getting urine on his belly (maybe laying in it a little) and that is causing the rash. Try washing the area with doggy/baby wipes. I would give the antibiotics just in case, but hold off on the vaccinations till the dog is healthy. Just my 2 cents

Kimberly

Yea...another Lab owner!

First, I would NOT give the 12 week shots while your puppy's system is depressed and fighting an infection. I wouldn't give the 12 week shots period, but that's my own preference after reading this:

http://leerburg.com/vaccinosis.htm

I would also think about another food. Leerburg's list is a great guide to finding a high-quality, low-grain, kibble:

http://leerburg.com/all-natural%20kibble.htm

If your vet is actually considering vaccinating your puppy while it is sick, FIND A NEW VET IMMEDIATELY.

I'm sorry that you're dealing with such an unprofessional, unscrupulous vet. My own vets (who are quite vaccine-happy) would never vaccinate any puppy who isn't in perfect health.
Even the vaccine bottles have warnings on them for vets, instructing them NOT TO VACCINATE AN UNHEALTHY ANIMAL. It can cause a lot of harm. Your vet knows this, and if he were more concerned about your puppy's well-being and less about his income, he would be telling you all this.

The puppy rash is pretty common in puppies when they're stressed. I usually follow my vet's advice on whether or not the antibiotics are really necessary or if the puppy can deal with the rash on its own.
However, if you have a bad vet (which it seems you do), I would find another one who's actually competent.

As far as food, royal canin isn't good food for dogs...

If you must feed kibble, could you maybe try Canidae, Nature's Variety, Innova or another quality kibble that's grain-free (or very minimal grains) and only contains human grade meats?

I would just go with raw-feeding... it doesn't get any better than that and you'll save money too

http://leerburg.com/feedingarawdiet.htm

Welcome Meghan, and congratulations on your new puppy!

It sounds like his system is under some stress right now, have you had him checked for worms?

Whatever you do, please don't vaccinate your little one, certainly not now while he's not at his best health.

Good luck with everything

Oh and as far as avoiding allergies with your new puppy, the BEST way to ensure that he grows up allergy-free is to feed him an all natural raw diet (with NO GRAINS) and to not vaccinate him.

That's also the best way to prevent him from developing joint abnormalities (like hip displaysia)...

Do we get a name/pictures of your new baby?

Thanks everyone! So, I finally figured out how to upload a pic of my new little man, so it's now in my signature. His name is Remington and he's a little 24 lb cutie! The pic is a couple of weeks old, but when I get an update uploaded I'll update the link, too.

So, I've also read about the vaccinations and I am very nervous about them after all I've read on this site. I asked the vet about them yesterday and she made it sound like she understood my concern but that it was important to finish the puppy series. He has already had 2 puppy shots, can I just not finish the series? He will be a hunting dog so want to make sure he is OK for water, woods, etc. She also wanted to check Remi out before giving him the vaccination to make sure things had cleared up, so maybe there's hope for her? Or should I look into possibly a homeopathic vet in the area?

The food is something I wasn't sure about as well... I realized after I bought the Sensible Choice that it wasn't on Ed's list, but now I am afraid to just switch it again... is it good to leave him on one for a couple months before switching? The Sensible Choice I guess is a new version of Royal Canin, with more natural ingredients... http://www.sensiblechoice.com/SCHDNBP.HTM

I have also been thinking quite a bit about the raw food diet. My husband (and maybe myself soon) is a hunter and we typically have at least one deer during the season and have ample supply of goose and duck and usually pheasant typically. I haven't done enough research yet, so I'm afraid to start the diet before I know exactly how to do it and what to feed...

He is so adorable!

I just love his sweet puppy expression... and his enormous feet

Wow, if you're a hunter you could feed your dog the best diet possible for free (depending on how much you kill and how much freezer space you have )

You should definitely feel comfortable before switching though. The leerburg website is excellent and has all the information you need to put together a balanced diet.

There are many variations of feeding a raw diet out there, but my feeling is that the simpler you keep things, the better.

I personally follow a whole prey model with my dogs, so I try to approximate the proportion of bones, muscle meat and organ meats that a dog would get from consumming a whole prey animal.

If you have any questions after reading up on the subject (try the link I posted earlier), I'd be happy to help out

You can feed just about any type of meat you want, as long as it comes from a prey animal (I wouldn't feed other carnivores or omnivores/scavengers such as bears, cougars, coyotes, wild boar, rats, squirrels etc. to my dogs though...).
There can be issues with parasites from wild game, but there are freezing protocols to help kill off the parasites. Not feeding the intestines of wild prey is also a good way to reduce this risk.
I think there's also something about not feeding raw salmonids from the Pacific NW (?)

Anyway, if you read Ed and Cindy's articles on the Leerburg website, it should answer most of your concerns.

As far as supplements, you only need to give salmon oil and vitamin E. I give vitamin C too, but that's optional. All the other nutrients come from the diet.


Wow, your pup is 3 months old and has already had two sets of vaccinations?

Well, there's your answer as to why he's struggling with all these infections now. Vaccinations are very stressful on a puppy's body. No wonder he's feeling the effects of this stress. Poor baby

I use traditional vets for my dogs, even though I don't do vaccines and I feed raw. My vets are fine with my approach (ok, they're not too happy about the no vaccine thing, but I make it clear that I've made my decision so they respect it).
They've seen the results in my dogs and they have nothing but VERY positive comments about my dogs' health.

If your vet can accept and respect your decisions and you feel that you're comfortable working with her, then there's no need to change

I checked the ingredients on the food you linked, and they're not great. Way too much grain and they're still not using human-grade ingredients.

I would definitely start reading up on the raw diet, since it sounds like you have very easy access to great variety and quality of meats. You can switch your puppy whenever you're ready to.

Most dogs have no problems switching, even when it's done overnight. Others might need to ease into it a little more slowly, but I have no doubt that your puppy will thrive on a raw diet if you do make the switch

And of course I, along with other more knowledgeable board members here, will be happy to help you along. We've helped countless others switch their dogs (young, old, sick, what have you) and people are usually very pleased with the difference they see in their dogs

PS: do you have a source for chicken backs or necks near you?

Those are some of the softest bones around and have a pretty good ratio of meat/bone. It's one of the best things to start out with when switching to a raw diet.

If you can add a small amount of lean ground beef or ground turkey to that with an occasional raw egg or piece of liver, you have yourself a great diet for a puppy.

Once your puppy is doing well on the basic diet for a few weeks, you can start to add more variety. Pork, beef, hearts, rabbit, deer, kidneys, raw sardines and mackarel and so on in small quantities.

The trick is to have enough bones in the diet that the puppy's stools are firm, but not so many bones that the puppy poops powder and becomes constipated. Once you figure out the balance of meats to bones that works for your puppy, the rest is easy and you can change the diet around as much as you want to, depending on what's available

Have fun reading up on all this...

Meghan,
Your pup is adorable.

Yuko,
Could you explain more about what the Prey Model diet is.

(sorry for hijacking your post Meghan)

-Hugh

Here's a link that might help: http://leerburg.com/feedpups.htm

Ed's puppy menu example


Annnd... here: http://rawfed.com/myths/

If you're worrying about things like parasites, bones, bacteria, balance and so on, that website will dispel any myths about raw feeding that you may have (or will) come across.

It will also give you a lot of excellent arguments to present to your vet as to why a raw diet is the best thing to feed to your dog and why it is in no way dangerous.

It really isn't that complicated. It only takes a couple of minutes more a day to feed raw than it does to feed kibble and raw is usually cheaper in the end. It's also WAY more fun than feeding boring old kibble

Besides, when you end up with a beautiful, healthy, shiny dog with clean breath, gorgeous white teeth, soft odourless coat, great muscle tone, who has tiny dry poops that turn to powder after a day in the yard (kibble poops on the other hand... yuck!), you'll be so happy you switched!

I still have people asking me if I bleach my male shepherd's teeth... you don't achieve that from feeding kibble, there's just no comparison


Edit: Hugh,

When feeding a whole prey model, it's almost the same as the BARF-style diets, but you just make the following adjustments:
1. more meat
2. less bones
3. lose the vegetable mush
:-)

As an example, I just finished feeding my dogs - they all got a whole freshly slaughtered rabbit for their meal (I didn't remove anything from the rabbit; the dogs ate the guts, the head, the fur, everything).

That's as whole prey as it gets