Hindsight 20/20, right? FYI (a what happened with us post)

Last night, out on an *excellent* walk interspersed with OB with Cato, training on sidestreets and alleys and open lots with his ball (fuss, stays, etc). Anyway, he's been getting really good at carrying his (FAVORITE) cuz ball right along side me. However, we turned a corner onto a busy street, us up on the sidewalk and I didn't even think a thing of him carrying his ball!!! Well, unfortunately, he dropped it, and it went roll, roll, roll, right out into traffic!!!!

I had to put him in a sit and wait, again and again, because traffic was coming from both directions. FINALLY, ONE last car to go and we've got a clearing to run out and get the ball, but wouldn't you know it, that "last" car ran over the cuz ball and off it rolled, over towards us, and PLOP, right down a sewer drain!!! We watched it happen.

So, I'm sure to *only* train with treats from now on in a traffic situation. What was I thinking?????!!!!

heh,

you had me siting on the edge of my seat there for a second i thought something happened or almost happened to your dog. The loss of a toy is nothing :-P

Anyhow i like treats for OB work because you just feed it to him out of your hand and he doesn't have to brake his position. But i always toss a toy around at the end of training.

Thankfully, I was focused on him and, of course, with shortened lead by traffic, had quick reflex, as he *was* focused on his ball! Thankfully too, only loss of that toy, even though he was really starting to "light up" with it...It all seemed to happen in slow motion.

I've been more toy oriented to get his prey up to speed, and it is paying off. Also, lately, it seems he loses interest in treats easily. I'm glad this happened with no serious conseqence.

Off topic: yeah my dog is very toy driven compared to treats but the treat is still a reward. i just cant let him see the toy until OB is over with.

And this does remind me i need to start working with distractions more.

Mike,

JMO-I don't like treats for OB training unless it's a puppy. I want my dog working for me, not food. It is kind of like bribing your dog to obey. I will play after a training session is over if the dog has a high drive.

I use a smaller tug that I can fit in the back of my waistband when I'm training on walks or in parking lots. Like you Michelle I learned the hard way about the "roll" factor.

Make sure it is a smaller tug though. If you use a bigger one and walk funny when it is in the waistband it takes a while to figure out why you are getting so many questions from your neighbors about the state of your health......

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JMO-I don't like treats for OB training unless it's a puppy. I want my dog working for me, not food.

This is outdated thinking in my mind. Not the dog working for food persay, but the idea that a dog will just work to please its owner. What if you are training someone elses dog, do you expect it to just work for you, or are you asking it to do the right thing or else be corrected? There are dogs that will just work for the privilage of being near their owner, many will not.

Why would your dog "work for you"? Are you "bribing your dog" with praise maybe? How would you train a client's dog if praise/petting was not intrinsically rewarding to their particular dog? What if they also had little prey drive? Keep many tools in your tool box

Happy dogs work for rewards, could be time with you, praise, food, a toy.... Of course the people in the post are not talking about rewarding adult dogs for every command they are given during the day. I am sure you have heard of intermittnant rewards and the like. They are also pairing the rewards with praise, so that that may let the dog know they have done the right thing in the future. They are talking about rewarding their dogs for doing the right thing with increasing distractions I beleive. Sounds reward worthy to me.

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I will play after a training session is over if the dog has a high drive.

You could never use rewards on a dog is no longer a puppy (or just use them at the very end of a training session) and train that dog to do many differnt things, but your ob will look different, and by different I mean not as good IMHO.

You will not find many (any?) top obedience dogs in AKC ob, sport dog ob, or even LE dogs (in my area anyways) these days that do not use rewards (toys, food, tug, bite, along with praise) well into doggie adulthood, and DURING obedience sessions.


Sorry for the hijack, just food for though Lisa. There are MANY people that agree with you on this by the way. I am just not one of them

 Quote: lisa harrison

Mike,

JMO-I don't like treats for OB training unless it's a puppy. I want my dog working for me, not food. It is kind of like bribing your dog to obey. I will play after a training session is over if the dog has a high drive.

lisa,
Your opinion isn't shared by most of the current high level dog trainers of the past 15 years.

Michelle,
For training the traffic portion of the BH, you'd be best off using the Flinks trick in that the dog will get the reward ( and knows that he'll get the reward, that's the important part ) at the end of the exercise only. This requires a bit of mental maturity on the dog's part, so Cato may be too young at this point to put two-and-two togther as needed for this.

But when it works......it's great!

Bernhard's theory is to teach a dog to concentrate for up to an eight min. period ( which is the length of a SchH III routine ) and the dog is rewarded at the end of the period. He actually has someone meet him at the field gate to hand him a ball out of the dog's sight and then he rewards the dog.

We spent a lot of time this weekend passing balls to each other in club and it's working well for the high drive dogs ( Betty's Anabelle in particular works well for these items due to her extreme drive - Betty got her shirt caught into Anabeele's mouth when she got the item and the dog nearly undressed Betty on the field. Much laughter ensued.... )

Never before have I flashed back to 5am and tried to remember exactly what I put on under my t-shirt.

She is such a weasel.....That was one of my favorite shirts and it is now in the rag pile.