I see this mentioned in many threads but it hasn't been anything that I have really thought about in my effort to train my dog. If I have been a fair and consistant handle, is this enough to insure the respect from my dog? Or by my allowing certain behaviors such as pawing me for attention and sitting on me, fly in the face of him seeing me as his leader.

If I am understanding correctly, respect is very important to having a well trained dog and looking at my relationship with Buddy I honestly don't know if I have it. I understand that respect is a relationship you earn over time with your dog, but are there certain things I should be doing to insure I earn/demand the respect I should have from him?

Regards,

Peggy,

Although I can claim to be no expert compared to some around here, it has been my experience with my life of dogs that to allow some things gives the impression that you will allow more things if they push the issue long enough. Dogs are very pack structured animals. If you want to see how a real pack coexists just watch a documentary on the goings on between wolves. Dogs are still very basic in their primary insticts. Wolves have very little tolerance for shinanigans. You would be correct in saying that they are almost cruel in their point of discipline. The purpose for this is because it is also in their nature to challenge for a higher position in the pack. Without ABSOLUTE RULE there can always be room for a coup. Judging by your picture you have a very beautiful Rottweiler. I have owned rotty's and know from personal experience and from much read literature that as a breed they are very stubborn and have no issues challenging authority when they make up their minds to get their way. My advice to you is to consider yourself a pack leader. Do not give your dog attention when he demands it. If they are demanding anything that is not an ideal situation. It may sound silly but I have developed quite a talent for growling. When my dogs do something I don't like I growl at them or talk in a voice that resembles a growl. Of course this is something that I have trained them with since puppyhood. Not sure growling at an 18 mo. old rotty is the best course of action..hahah!! It is in our nature as women to want to cuddle and give our dogs affection and love but in a pack the affection only comes when and where the alpha dog decideds and only when the lower dog is behaving in a calm submissive manner. Hope this helps.

Probably what i am going to say has nothingto do with this thread But on several threads the comparison of the Modern day bred Dog to Wolves crops up a lot
We know they probably without question descended from the Wolves but there are many differences which make the Dog today somewhat different species of this day and Age, but are wse still treating them as if they are still the same from the by gone times
They may have the Dominant charactristices still that wolves had and it shows in the pack structure with humans, But Modern day dogs do not regurgitate there food like Wolves to feed there young that is an important difference, the the modern day dog has gone some way from its common ansesters I may not be getting across very well what i mean but i hope you can understand it

Edited by Steve Patrick (08/27/2007 11:01 AM)
Edit reason: added to the text

Steve,

Some dogs still do regurgitate their food for their young, I think some stuff I read says that czech gsd bloodlines are more likely to then other gsd bloodlines (maybe we have some breeders on here who can back me up). I think if you put dogs in a natural environment (wooded areas) and let them fend for themselves, they become very similar to their wolf ancestors the main difference may be how they react to humans (afraid or not).

Kimberly

I agree with Steve here, and I think it is pertinent to the conversation at hand. Dogs are domesticated animals. They've come a long way since the wolf days. I think it is hazardous to say "dogs are pack animals like wolves, so do what wolves do."

Dogs ARE pack animals, but they're also in tune to humans in a way that few animals are. We've selectively bred them to be this way.

I don't bother with trying to correct my dog in a dog or "wolf like" way. He knows I'm not a dog. He doesn't need to think I'm a dog for him to submit to my authority. And as Patricia McConnell points out, don't confuse dominance with aggression. You need to be in the "alpha" position, but this doesn't require the use of physical force (no one has suggested them in this thread, but "alpha rolls" are one of my pet peeves. Please do not ever do this with any dog. Ever.)

This isn't to say that you shouldn't correct the dog when they willfully disobey. When they do something they KNOW they shouldn't do. But you'd best make sure that you correct them with good timing and clearly, so they know why it's happening. If you fail to reach them in time and you still correct them, you're just a bully. Honestly, once the groundwork is laid and they understand what they shouldn't do, most dogs are HAPPY to comply, rarely requiring correction.

Pawing you: I clip my dogs nails and this STILL hurts. Just on that basis I wouldn't allow it. Imagine a little kid (we've all seen this) running up to his mom and tugging at her shirt. "Hey, hey, hey, hey, mom, mom, mom, mom!" It's disrespectful and it's annoying. You should block this behaviour and redirect him. You don't need to correct him for it right away, just use your body english to communicate that you want space, and that what he's doing isn't ok. Remember, dogs pay more attention to hip and shoulder movements than they do to hands and feet for the most part (look at dog anatomy). Once he knows that it isn't acceptable you can introduce corrections.

A great, fun way to set yourself up as Alpha is tethering the dog to you for 2 weeks. "If you're not in your crate, you're attached to me" seems to very effectively communicate "hey, I dictate the agenda and I'm the boss here." in a pleasant way. Check out the Groundwork to Pack Leadership article on this site.

The other huge thing in my book is obedience training. When you do OB you're working on communication, for the dog this is WORK. And in this work, you call the shots (even when it's motivational) and you give the rewards. Gentle obedience training is the first step in a great relationship. The most important thing is, Have FUN! This is your pal, your friend, your bud. You have a lot to teach him, and he wants to learn.

I don't think that you selectively breed out instinct. Overall, any dog put into a wild situation would go ferrel in a heartbeat. Domesticated does not mean that all the things that make them dogs have been bred out, it only means that they are capable of living amongst humans. As far as how I talk to my dogs...I say, to each his own. It works quite well for me. Domesticated or not, most dogs will try and up the anny when it comes to pack structure. It doesn't matter if it is big dogs or little dogs. They are all the same. If they weren't, Ceasar Milan would be out of work. It is the human lack of understanding of pack structure that causes dogs to go whacko! In my opinion, a dog is a dog is a dog.

I totally agree with you, Robbin. I think all I'm saying is; you c an be the leader of your pack without acting like wolves do.

Dogs do become feral, but feral dogs hunt in packs far less often than wolves. Availability of food may be a part of this. I can look up the citation to back that statement, too. If you want. But I AM lazy.

Thanks for the replys, Buddy is the 4th rott that I have raised and the first dog in many years that is the only dog we have. Found this site around the same time that I bought him and so far I have done a much better job of training him then I did with any of my other dogs. He has been a very eager student and loves to please. Were at the point that I very rarly have to correct him for him to obey my command.

I am still working through some distraction issues, which got me wondering if his not minding when highly distracted is a matter of his not respecting me or really just a training issue he needs to learn to work through. Does that make sense?

thanks everyone

This is a tough one. I have read lots of material that say opposite things. ONe point is that if you train the dog while he is distracted then the dog will learn to ignore outside influences. The other point is that if you work on the obedience issues first, without distractions, introducing them slowly and progressively that the dog will learn better. I am far from expert on this matter, however, I do have my own opinion..I personally would prefer to leave out the distractions in the beginning. Ed says that you have to be absolutely certain that a dog understands what you are asking of it before you correct. This helps the dog understand that you are fair and worth trusting, creating a better bond. With this in mind, I don't think it's fair to assume the dog is getting everything prossessed in his head as well when there are too many distractions. I would prefer to be absolute that the command is being understood before I introduce any outside stimulus. Then when you are sure that the dog is clear on what you are asking of him (understanding the command) then when he does not obey due to distraction you can correct. I'm sure others might disagree. Hopefully you will get more replies.

I agree with you, Robbin, and I've found that working my dog and expecting too much, too soon, ends up being an exercise in frustration for both of us.

Ed wrote "The biggest mistake new trainers make is to increase distractions too quickly."

And it's such an easy mistake to make: When I first moved training from the back yard to the front yard I watched what I thought was my very obedient pup become a deaf goof ball in the blink of an eye. He wasn't ready for it and, novice dog trainer that I am, I didn't realize it. Dog training is always humbling

Peggy: I love the updated photo of Buddy...he's SO impressive! Gotta love that great big head.