Some background....

I live overseas - just wanted to state that up front because living in another country limits the options for doggie health. My 5 month old bullmastiff has "hip problems". The vet says she is too young to x-ray for dysplasia (at least too young for the x-rays to mean anything), but she was having problems standing up in the mornings because her hips were very stiff.

The vet (orthopedic vet) gave her Fortiflex 375 which is chondroitin sulfate and chitosan. We gave them to her for 30 days and saw a difference in her immediately. After 2 days she was up and back to normal. For some reason you can't give these to dogs for more than 30 days - you have to give it for 30 days, take a break for 60 days, then give it for 30 days, etc.

After the 30 days were up and stopping the pills last week, 3 days later she was having trouble standing again. This morning she tried and tried to get up and couldn't without help. I called the vet and he said we can't give her Fortiflex again, so he prescribed Rimadyl. I am supposed to pick it up from a vet closer to my home.

I've done a search here and what I have found is that everyone says it is a horrible drug and do NOT give a dog Rimadyl. I read that it has bad side effects but I haven't found what those side effects are. I hate to see my puppy in pain but I didn't go pick up the prescription, because I want to find out if there is something else I can give her to help the pain. I would love to continue giving her the Fortiflex, because this really helped her and she didn't have any side effects that we could tell. Does anyone know why you have to take a 60 day break from Fortiflex? If chondroitin is a natural substance why take a break?

As I said, my resources are limited, and I'm not even sure if there IS anything other than Rimadyl here. (I live in Estonia). I am planning on going to the vet close to my home and asking them if there is something other than Rimadyl available. I'm not sure what the orthopedic vet would say to me going "around" him, but he also says that Hills and Royal Canin are the best dog foods, so I don't believe everything he says. The only thing is, since he's the only orthopedic vet in town, many other vets DO put a lot of stock in what he says. That's why I was sent to him in the first place.

There are other NSAIDs besides Rimadyl, such as Deramaxx* and Metacam,
http://www.marvistavet.com/html/body_medications_for_degenerative_a.html
* QUOTE about Deramaxx: Of all the oral NSAIDs currently available for dogs, this is probably the most expensive but depending on the results obtained may be well worth it. It is not only the safest NSAID but probably the strongest pain reliever. END

But all NSAIDs, including aspirin, have a possibility for bad side effects in dogs, so they have to be used carefully, under supervision, and after complete evaluation.

http://arthritis.about.com/od/dogarthritis/a/painmedications_2.htm
This link is page 2 of 3; be sure you go on to read page 3.

Now Fortiflex: I don't think it's a brand that we have in the U.S., but from what I read on the internet, on U.K. sites, it doesn't even require a prescription. So I would ask the vet about exactly why it has to be discontinued intermittently.

What I would do is ask for a conference, either at the office or on the phone, to address all these questions with the vet. For one thing, I'd want a complete discussion of NSAIDs, which it doesn't sound like you had. You'll see on page 3 of the link above symptoms to watch for, and on page 2 about getting the client information sheet.

If you have as little faith in him as it sounds, maybe it will be worthwhile to go elsewhere, though, even if it's a drive.

I don't know anything about puppies' hip problems, so I hope someone more knowledgeable will see this. The information I'm giving here is from research and experience with adult and senior dogs with arthrtitis.

Brenda...your vet is just plain WRONG about taking x-rays at 5 months.

If your pup is having "hip problems" you take an x-ray. My pup's dysplasia was diagnosed at 4 1/2 months by taking an x-ray.

Rimadyl seems to be the drug of choice with vets and, as you know, it has lots of nasty side effects. I use Metacam when my dog needs it and, like Connie said, I feel it is safer.

 Quote: sarah_morris

Brenda...your vet is just plain WRONG about taking x-rays at 5 months.

If your pup is having "hip problems" you take an x-ray. My pup's dysplasia was diagnosed at 4 1/2 months by taking an x-ray.

I agree, joint problems don't always wait until a dog is "of age" for anything to occur - an x-ray at this point can certainly tell you what the CURRENT status of the pup's hips are, regardless of how she will mature. I'd get them done without question since the situation sounds pretty severe.

On Rimadyl, Connie gave some great links and advice. It does indeed have the highest potential for very nasty side effects, especially if given long term, though if the best option for your pup really is a prolonged course of NSAID treatment (do your research), you're going to have some risks associated with ANY of the brands out there - it is in the nature of the drug specific to all NSAIDS do damage at the same time it is "working", so caution should ALWAYS be used. That said, I have used Rimadyl for short, intense & acute pain control and it works very well - for my dog. I'd do a lot of reading and research before I put a puppy on it long term... you're going to have to really weigh what's going on with your pup and her quality of life with the risks involved in treatment for what sounds like it could already be a chronic and debilitating issue.

Good luck to you and your girl!

~Natalya

I have also used Rimadyl on a dog for extreme pain (after surgery) and haven't had problems with it but it was very short term (maybe 3-4 days of use). My other dog was diagonsed with Pano under a year old, she was prescribed Deramaxx. It is very strong, I could actually give 1/4 of the recommended dosage to relieve her pain when needed.

Triple pelvic osteotomy surgery to correct HD has to be done while the dog is still growing, but the dog needs to have x-rays done to see how bad the HD is.

The only other thing I can tell you besides what others have said is to make sure the dog is kept warm to help releive the joint pain and to maybe invest in an orthopedic dog bed if you haven't already.

Kimberly

Thanks everyone. I am going to drive to the vet clinic tomorrow and talk with the vet face to face. I'm a bit peeved at him. He prescribed Rimadyl over the phone (after seeing her only once 5 weeks ago) to my puppy without doing any blood tests or doing a liver check and without letting me know of any possible side effects. I know Estonian doctors are of "few words", but either he doesn't know about the side effects or he doesn't think they are of much importance.

I will also talk to my normal vet on my side of town (who sent me to the orthopedic vet) to see what her thoughts are on this. I plan on asking what other options I have - if Deramaxx or Metacam are available here.

I also sent an e-mail to Virbac, the makers of Fortiflex, and asked them what the reason is they say you should take a 60 day break from giving the chondroitin pills. Like Connie said, if it's all natural, and can be bought without a prescription, why take it intermittently? The only reason I can think of is maybe the effects of it wear off if taken non-stop so it's good to stop it for awhile inbetween. Who knows?

As for the vet's reason for not taking x-rays, he said he doesn't "feel" pain right now in her hips, (from feeling around on her hips) and that all puppies tighten up after awhile so what an x-ray says now will most likely be completely different at the age of 8-9 months, so he wants us to wait a few months before taking x-rays. But he did give us the advice to not overfeed her, not over exercise her, and gave her the chondroitin pills. I'm not sure what else he would have us do if he did find dysplasia at this age. I don't know if they do hip replacement surgery over here for puppies this young. (They kind of have an "old school" approach to medicine here - I have not found anyone so far in this country that fees raw... so the vets for sure don't advocate it. I just do my thing and don't discuss feeding much with them.)

We are doing the best we can living in another country - and I empathize with Steve as I go through many of the things he talks about in his posts - but I have to tell you, this web page and Connie and all the rest of you have been a Godsend! I read here as often as I can and I learn so much. I think my husband is sick of hearing, "on the forum they said this..." :-)

I'm not one of the experts.

My 14 year old Lab has Arthritis which was affecting one of his back limbs as he was not able to put any pressure on it and was hobbling around on 3 legs. The vet prescribed Rimadyl which I gave for only a couple of days while researching alternatives. I guess I got lucky because he's been on DGP (Dog Gone Pain) and Synflex for about 10 months and is doing fabulous.

 Quote: Brenda Mitchell

We are doing the best we can living in another country ..... I read here as often as I can and I learn so much. :-)

Me too, Brenda. I search here first when I have a new question.

BTW, your pup is on fish oil and Vitamin E, right?

 Quote: brenda mitchell

Like Connie said, if it's all natural, and can be bought without a prescription, why take it intermittently? The only reason I can think of is maybe the effects of it wear off if taken non-stop so it's good to stop it for awhile inbetween. Who knows?

There are lots of "natural" products out there that don't require prescription, but have the potential to be dangerous if not taken correctly - suppliments like iron and calcium can even do damage if doses are too high... all essential vitamins, minerals, suppliments and medications are a balance of giving just enough to be useful, without so much that it acculmulates in the body... not sure what the case is here, but I hope the manufacturer can give you some more info.

~Natalya

I've got one of my dogs on rimadyl when he's symtomatic. I talked to my vet about the side affects etc and this seems to be the best working medicine for my dog. He has Spondylosis and rimadyl makes his quality of life unbelievably better when he's having trouble, so i use it.
AL