Good morning everyone,

About 3 months ago, I began fostering a dumped dog that found his way to my yard. He is a lab/Pitbul mix about 2 years old. He is dog/cat/person friendly, but has an extreme fear and submission problem I thought I could overcome; but currently cannot. Here's the skinny: He doesn't like food. He will eat reluctantly most days, but only if he is isolated. He is too scared to eat any other time. I have tried training him with treats, but he wont take them. Nothing, not even steak. He also doesnt like toys, so I can't seem to get any reaction out of him for a toy reward. He does show some interest in squirrels though.

You may be thinking, "He sounds sick" but he is not, we've had him checked out and he is fine on all counts. He is very active when my own dog is near him. They play and run and have fun, but only when no people are around.

As for the fear, he urinates and defacates on himself when he hears loud noises, etc. Loud is subjective though. If you set your glass on the table and it makes a "Clunk" sound, he will flee, absolutely terrified, and pee himself running to another room. It is amazing.

I cannot approach him either, He will always urinate uncontrollably, especially if I am standing up (vs squatting down). He does the same if I call him to me. He generally will run spastically, urinating, if I or my wife look at him and call to him.

I have alot more details if you need for prognosis. My idea is that he is weak nerved to begin with, and his previous owner was a heavy handed, unfair trainer. He now doesn't understand how to please his handler and the above is the result. He's seen us in action for three months though, using fair, positive training techniques etc (within my skill level). I never hit or get upset at him, knowing that will make things worse. I am seeing very little progress though. I know its not his fault, but I can only handle so much running through my house while peeing!

Please help!

THANK YOU!
TJ Zaremba

TJ, I'm sure you'll get some great ideas here! I've a few thoughts while we wait for others to chime in.

You mention that he seems okay around your other dog. Does the rescue have a crate? If not, you may want to consider one. One with a removable bottom tray may be good, considering the submissive elimination of waste.

Have the rescue spend the bulk of his time in the crate. Place it near (but not IN) the traffic flow of your home. He can get used to just BEING with you folks. I agree in that it seems the previous owner was a bit of a bully.

Dogs respond differently to different foods/treats. Try cheese, or peanut butter or even veggies and fruit. SOMETHING there will trip the dog's "light fantastic" and you'll have your reward item!

Be calm and talk to the dog while he's in the crate. Can even be as simple as reading aloud from the book you're currently in; let him get used to the sound of your voice. He'll learn that it means good things are coming. Keep the reward item by you while you are near the crate. ANY positive interaction with you, be it looking at you, wagging his tail, perking up... these get rewards. Yup, you'll turn into a feeding machine, but that's alright.

The pack leader provides all good things. Work on building his confidence in the situation he's in. The submissive elimination will ease as his confidence increases.

Luck!
-J

You could use a belly band and a diaper on him while he's in the house until you get the situation resolved, if that is possible.
Read the TTouch info. in the recent "thunderstorm" thread. That may help build your dog's confidence.
Frankly, from how you describe him, I would say this dog goes way beyond being weak nerved and is in the severely mentally defective category and may never be reformed to a place where he is comfortable around people. I have seen a dog in much the same state that I know was never abused or mistreated. She showed no improvement despite lots of work and attention.
If you can relax him, more power to you! I am curious to see how you progress with him. It sounds like you are very thoughtful and patient in dealing with a difficult situation.

I agree with what has been suggested, especially the crate. I think that's an important first step for a frightened dog. It becomes his safe place. Make sure if you have other dogs that they are not allowed to approach him in his crate and that goes for children as well. The only time you should approach him in his crate is to let him out.

When you open the door to let him out, just open the door, don't call him, don't interact with him, don't talk to him. Walk away. If he follows you a little, drop a piece of hot dog on the ground a couple of feet in front of him (not right near his face). Anytime he comes near you, drop a piece of hot dog on the floor.

I would stop altogether calling him to you. I would basically provide his needs of water, food, outside to potty and that's it for now. I wouldn't try to play with him or do any interaction at all, except for monotone talk so that he doesn't even really know if you're talking to him specifically. Almost to the point of ignoring him until he sees and feels no threat whatsoever.

Try to eliminate everything that you know makes him react with fear. For example, if the glass being put down on the table makes a noise that makes him flee, put down a paper towel or something that will absorb the noise.

Make sure you completely ignore the peeing and pooing in the house, no corrections at this time. Just ignore and clean it up.

Keep this up for a couple of weeks and see if there's an improvement.

The reason I suggest ignoring him is because right now he thinks everything is directed at him, and all about him and if he indeed had an abused past you can bet everything WAS about him in the creepy owner's mind. If you can reverse this mind-set, you can have some success with this poor baby and help free him from hopefully all, but at least some of his fear.

I think ignoring a dog that is completely fearful causes him to relax eventually and one day he may just approach you on his own rather than having you call him. When that happens, that's real progress. It means he is beginning to trust you and that in his mind you are NOT the jackass that owned him before.

I also think that even if Debbie is right and he may have never been abused, he will still be helped by the above. I would also suggest no taking him outside other than your backyard until he shows more confidence.

I agree with everything Sandy said. I recently worked with a dog seized from a house full of beaten and otherwise abused animals, and he was so frightened he did nothing but lie in the corner or in his crate, shaking, with his back to the room.

I won't go through all the steps I took helping the new owners (who were afraid that PTS was the only route open, not to put this dog through anything more), because Sandy has touched on several of them.

I will say that my first action was to sit in the same room, on the floor, not facing the dog, with a plate of freshly-cooked bacon near me, talking to the owners and ignoring the dog completely.

This particular dog had no dog-aggression or fear, so I worked with that and brought my own 100% laid-back GSD with me.

The details aren't as important as the fact that I did not approach the dog, did not speak directly to him, did not make any moves around him..... pretty much did not focus on him at all.

I asked his owners to start leaving the room after putting down his food (and make sure no one else was nearby), to open the door to the secure fenced yard so he could relieve himself with no interaction, and so on.

This was a months-long process (and it's probably going to be a years-long or permanent process), but this dog can now be leashed and walked on quiet streets, and he has actually come in the car to my house (to visit!).

He will now eat in the crate with humans in the room.

He's a severe case, similar to what the O.P. describes. I was fortunate because he loved bacon and liked the GSD I had with me, but I think the big point was not approaching or speaking to him until HE came to me (or to the bacon ). It was a looooong process, as I said, and if the bacon and the calm presence in the room hadn't started to calm him a little, I would have recommended an eval by a highly-recommended professional behaviorist.

There are dogs who cannot be helped, and a life of terror is no life at all. JMO.

To be clear: I am talking about a serious case, where the dog's quality of life is severely affected by fear.

P.S. The crate ... YES. Perhaps with a cloth draped over part of it to make it more den-like.





BTW, I should add that the help I got online was crucial to my work with the fearful dog.

Bob Scott, David Frost, and Mike Schoonbrood had invaluable suggestions as we progressed.

I had a foster dog like this once. Off the top of my head the one thing that helped him most was the fact that I had other non fearful dogs and he was able to just blend in with them. IMHO, this is a genetic problem. However, over time my he did show improvement. We ended up using elevil and prozac (at two different times). I consulted with Tufts University. They have a petfax service where they will link you with a behaviorist that can assess the animal based on the questionnaire that you fill out.

If possible, stop doing anything that is making him deficate. He is way over threshold during this time and this behavior is only being reinforced. Do not make direct eye contact with him. Interact as little as possible for now and always keep things upbeat. In the beginning I ended up doing homecooked food to get his appetite going and I also feel the meds were very beneficial in taking the "edge" off him which allowed the door to open for him to relearn some things as well as increase his appetite.

My fearful dog thrived on routine and was very comforted in knowing what was going to happen next. Many dogs like this are much more fearful of men. That was the case with my dog. He never lost his fear of my husband in the 3 years I had him although the level did lessen. So, if he is more comfortable with your wife, I would have her doing the interacting, etc....

There is a shyk9 yahoo group that is a wealth of knowledge and is worth checking out.

If you want more specifics feel free to pm me.

Good post, Chris..... good suggestions.

Routine will be invaluable, I think. And absolutely avoid repeating a situation that caused the dog loss of bowel control.

I totally agree with everyone. I occasionally get fearful fosters and crates are a must. I also have the most laid back, well socialized greyhounds ever and they are extremely calming for them.

I have found with these dogs, there is a time to ignore them, a time to encourage them, and a time to push them. The trick is knowing when and that's something you need to figure out as you go. I will say that if your dog is peeing and deficating, that you need to back off whatever is causing it. These dogs seem to require quiet and more quiet for a long time and with time, hopefully, you can gradually desensitize them.

I have a new foster coming this weekend that is so petrified that she's immobile. At 9 months of age, the only interaction she's ever had was when she was fed. Her person never even bothered to name her. Oh well. I have a couple of neighbor girls that help me with my dogs while I'm at work and their first job with this dog is just to go out and sit with her, without looking at her, and just talk quietly and pet her as tolerated. As this dog starts to move, I will start taking her out for short walks and rides in the car, with my dogs to steady her, starting with the least amount of possible stimuli and then very slowly increase the stimuli and length of time.

The trick with these dogs does seem to be going slowly and quietly, but gradually increase things as the dog will tolerate them. It's so hard, but it's worth it in the end.

I do agree with Connie in that some dogs are so broken that they aren't really able to make any sort of a come back and the kindest thing to do is to put them down.

My sister has a 16 month old GSD that is terrified of anything that moves and is too nervous to meet anyone that comes into her house so she sort of cowers in the corner. There are only two people that she likes besides her family. That's it. Her progression has been slow at best.

The one thing that hasn't been mentioned in the previous posts and that works with my sister's GSD is if you are new to the house or you've come in several times before but she won't let you get near her, you can sit on the ground and put your back to her and have a treat either sitting next to you on the ground or sometimes in your hand. Sometimes no treat at all. Whatever way, she will carefully and slowly walk up to you and sniff you but only if your back is to her. It works everytime with her.

BTW, my GSD is her BFF and is a calming influence on her but even his company cannot calm her enough to take her anywhere where there are people, kids, noise, etc.

I think medication is a good suggestion too. I've heard it takes the edge off. It sounds like the OP could use all the help there is out there.

Good luck! Kudos to you for taking in such a difficult, hurting dog.