I'm just curious, since it is already so hard to find a good trainer in my area for PP, I was wondering how one would judge how long it should take for a dog to progress in training. Levi is 11 months old and has only been to the trainer 3 times. The first time was an evaluation, the second he was on the tug (actually my sig pic shows his first time) and the last time he was on the sleeve and the leg sleeve quite successfully. Does a good trainer keep you on these for a time or do you progress onto a new apparatus each time? Should I expect to see him on a vest next time? Is he progressing nicely, too slow, too fast? I know this is a pretty broad question but because of my inexperience in this field of training, I'm not quite sure how to judge whether someone is stringing me along, or rushing my dog or what. Also, how much attention should be paid to obedience and what primary principles should the dog be learning first in ob??

The foundation work on a 11 month old takes a long time. Another few months at least. He may progress to other things in the mean time depending on how well he bites, but I wouldn't put him on a sleeve or a suit until I was absolutely happy with his foundation. Some trainers go too fast because the dog looks good, but its not always about looking good, its about the exercise sinking into the dogs head which only comes from repetition.

Mike is correct. You are moving a little too fast. Each step has to be solid before moving on to the next. Mike worked with my Mali at 11 months and the dog was looking great right out of the chute but we didn't push the training because he looked good or appeared to be solid. He stayed with the proper regiment.

Howard

So, what would be acceptable? 3,4,5 sessions on the tug before moving to the sleeve? 4,5,6 sessions on the sleeve before moving to the vest? I mean what exactly consists of "foundation" work. Does this mean only bite training? Does this mean obedience AND bite training? In my search for a trainer I am wondering what is and isn't acceptable. I'm finding that trainers are quite different in their methods and I don't want someone screwing up my dog.

Robin,

I'm in a situation similar to your's. My dog is only 9 months older than yours.

I really, really hate plugging specific products, and I can even see how it can seem like a cliché around here, but on my wife's eyeballs (don't tell her), I cannot over-emphasize how well-served you would be by buying Ed's series of videos on the matter.

Drive, grip, focus
Preparing for the helper
First steps of bite training
First steps of defense

Is a single $65.00 DVD cheap? Yes. You are paying for the pre-emptive measure of bouncing from questionable trainer to questionable trainer. You are saving gas money driving to-and-from these questionable trainers. You are saving the head-ache of having your training set back by these questionable trainers. You are saving countless useless comments and suggestions from every club's peanut gallery.

The message board is great, and nobody can be accused of witholding information, it's just that there's no amount of practical explanation (in writing) which will do justice to something as complicated as developing a PP dog.

Once you see a video, you'll say: "Oh...ok. I see what you mean."

You'll need help, yes. But you'll have a very credible point of reference upon which to judge someone else's ideas.

Robbin,
If no one else will say it, I will. You absolutly must find a trainer you trust. Foundation work in the area you're exploring is paramount to success. I repeat paramount. The high wire you want your dog to walk has a very small net, so it's much better to go too slow than too fast. It is a steep fall and once the dog slips it can be impossible to get them back. Go slow, let him keep his legs under him.

If my dog isn't learning, I'm doing something wrong.
Randy

i agree with Randy, also Robbin your OB has to be good, remember that a lot of people want a ppd but it is a huge liability and with a mediocre OB it's suicide..

Robin, if you don't know the questions that you're asking, you shouldn't be doing pp training at all.

You and your trainer should have sat down and done a complete plan after your dogs first evaluation - if ya'll haven't done that ( and it sure sounds like you haven't ) , you're not training, you're simply doing a dangerous form of play.
You should have *zero* questions at this point that you and your trainer haven't hammered out in detail.

And I gotta ask...is that pic your pp trainer...doing helper work in shorts with no protective gear whatsoever?
If so...get another trainer.

Will, I understand your concerns for me and I thank you...

However, my trainer and I have discussed our goals for Levi. As I understand it, we are working on his confidence, bite work and obedience.

Also, she is not doing helper work in the pic. Actually that was his evaluation and she was only playing with him on the tug. When she does other stuff, she uses a bite suit, vest, leg and arm sleeves. So I think she is okay on that note.

Lastly, I am one that will eternally have questions. If the forum hasn't figured that out about me by now..i dunno. My purpose for the questions in the first place, as I stated, was to make SURE that the trainer was doing things correctly. My trainer and I could talk and plan till the cows come home but that doesn't mean that she is telling me anything that is valid or correct. She could just be blowing smoke up my backside. For this reason, I am asking the forum such questions. Getting second opinions is my middle name.

Is it neccessary for me to be an expert on protection training before I even do protection training? How do you get to be an expert without asking questions?

With that said, even asking questions of the trainer as training begins, doesn't neccessarily mean you are working with someone who knows the price of tea in China. I do feel good about my trainer and her advice but that doesn't neccessarily mean she knows one bit of advice from another. Please understand, I respect your concern for my ignorance, not every one should get involved in this kind of training but I am about as dedicated to this as anyone can get. For this very reason, I come to the forum for advice from people such as yourself that know what proper protocol for this type of training should be. I would appreciate because of your experience some idea of what to expect in a quality training regimen.

Hey Robbin,

Are you using the same trainer as Sandy?

Just curious.