allergic doberman?
#159335 - 10/21/2007 03:53 PM |
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Hello everyone, new here to the leerburg forums so i hope you can help. I switched my two dobes over to a rmb diet one month ago. Both are females, one harley is 11yrs old and 65lbs and the other chloe is 7 and 72 or so lbs. I have them on mainly chicken quarters, beef heart, and some beef liver. I also give them some cottage cheese and an egg a couple times a week. I dont give them veg. or any supplments. Both are doing well on the diet and have eaten with gusto from day one. I switched them cold turkey. The issue i am having is chloe is starting to itch pretty bad. Her ears are red and smell and here skin underneath is also red . Her father had very bad allergies but his started when he was young and she has not had any of these problems before. Before we went raw we feed commercial kibble. Is it possible she is allergic to the some part of the raw diet. Thanks for any help!
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Re: allergic doberman?
[Re: Lee Waldron ]
#159336 - 10/21/2007 03:58 PM |
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More likely than not, what you are seeing is related to what we call the "detox" phase of the transition. Often, when a dog is fed a longterm kibble diet, the body is unable to deal with some issues due to poor health. As it gets stronger, due to the raw diet, it's not uncommon to see underlying issues that you may not have known existed come to the surface, often w/gusto.
Now, I'm not saying your dog isn't allergic to chicken or something, BUT a certain amount of "flaring up" of old/underlying/latent health problems is a common side part of the detox process.
Wild Salmon oil (w/Vitamin E) is an excellent anti-imflammatory. Your dogs are both at an age where they are likely to have a LOT of underlying issues you probably were totally unaware of. This happened to a puppy that my aunt has. I fed her raw, then my aunt tried to switch her to kibble. She stayed with me while my aunt was on vacation, and I fed her raw. She totally broke out in sores all over and a double ear infection. It was due to the grain in her food, but her body wasn't able to deal with the problem while it was still being bombarded w/the offensive grain, so it all showed up after a few days on raw. Make any sense?
What kibble were you feeding, and what were the ingredients?
I would suggest you take her to a holistic vet if you can find one. They would be best suited/able to help you determine what is transitional and what is truly allergic, and also to help ease the poor dog's itching w/out Science Diet crap.
Edited by Jenni Williams (10/21/2007 04:03 PM)
Edit reason: vet recommendation
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Re: allergic doberman?
[Re: Jenni Williams ]
#159338 - 10/21/2007 04:29 PM |
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Thanks Jenni, I understand. We had her on pedigree(i know). Dont have any pedigree bags around to list ingre. i will buy a small bag this purpose if i need to. I will start looking for a holistic/raw friendly vet.
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Re: allergic doberman?
[Re: Lee Waldron ]
#159340 - 10/21/2007 04:35 PM |
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I just wanted to see what the meat is in Pedigree. At their ages, a lot of these things are likely to crop up. Buy Dr.Pitcairn's book; it has a TON of info on transitional problems vs. real health problems and how to decide. There's a lot on here about it, plus you can see if there's a holistic vet in your area under that forum. http://www.leerburg.com/holisticvets.htm
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Re: allergic doberman?
[Re: Jenni Williams ]
#159355 - 10/21/2007 07:38 PM |
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First, have you ruled out fleas?
I can only offer some ideas based on my own experience dealing with allergic dogs, but no medical/nutrition training. And I'm sure you'll get some good ideas and links from posts from Connie, who has studied these areas extensively I'd start a diary of the diet and supplement changes you make and what changes you observe. After a few weeks, things start blurring together and you'll get confused trying to figure out what may or may not be working.
I've dealt with similar problems with a couple dogs. My approach would be to stick to a fairly simple raw diet like you have at first, and make a limited number of changes and added supplementation so you can get an idea of what seems to be successful. There's plenty of time to introduce variety and make dietary changes later after you've controlled the scratching. If necessary to provide relief, I'd give antihistamines to control severe scratching and itching. Since their benefits are not long lasting, it's easy enough to stop the antihistamines to see if the dietary/supplement changes are working. Some people have success with OTC Benydryl (I didn't have any) or a prescription like Hydrozyzine (Atarax). In severe cases, I've resorted to small doses of prednisone for a few days to get things under control - definitely nothing for long term use, but it provides instant relief.
I tend to agree with the detox idea. I'd expect to see some detox reactions sooner than a month, but after 7 - 11 yrs. of kibble, I guess any kind of time frame is possible. I'd start the salmon oil & E as Jenni mentioned. I've found that it may take a week or more before you begin to see any effects from adding that to the diet. And I'd also add a daily serving of good yogurt and/or kefir. Those two measures won't cause any problems and will go a long way toward strengthening the immune system. If you search this forum on what's mentioned above, you'll have plenty of reading to keep you busy and get info on dosage amounts, etc. My personal opinion is that a vet is not likely to have much of an answer other than suggesting an elimination diet - maybe something to consider way down the road, but I don't think it's warranted at this point.
HTH
Mike
Suppose you were an idiot.
Suppose you were a member of Congress.
But I repeat myself.
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Re: allergic doberman?
[Re: Mike Armstrong ]
#159364 - 10/21/2007 09:27 PM |
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You're received good info. :>
I'd do everything recommended so far (fish oil and E, probiotics).
QUOTE: The issue i am having is chloe is starting to itch pretty bad. Her ears are red and smell and here skin underneath is also red . END
The smell is in her ears? Is there debris inside? The redness is inside the ears? Both ears? Is there a yeasty smell?
Where is the "skin underneath"? Under her ear area?
Is there any paw itching? What about odor in the armpits or groin creases? Any waxiness there? Yeastiness?
Are they on flea meds? Have you seen any sign at all of fleas? Is the second dog itchy too?
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Re: allergic doberman?
[Re: Connie Sutherland ]
#159365 - 10/21/2007 09:28 PM |
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P.S. Is the itch waking her up at night?
Is she breaking skin with scratching/biting?
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Re: allergic doberman?
[Re: Connie Sutherland ]
#159477 - 10/22/2007 06:34 PM |
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There are no fleas. And no my other dog Harley is not itching. Her ears are flaking some and do have that yeast smell. She is red in her underarm area and on her belly. She is also biting and licking her paws and made a couple of her toes raw. I am going to be doing alot of reading here on these pages. Also i have ordered salmon oil & vit E. I am new to the raw diet and i am going to start tweeking it some and with every one`s help, we will get it figured out. Thanks.
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Re: allergic doberman?
[Re: Lee Waldron ]
#159484 - 10/22/2007 07:11 PM |
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Off topic but this is too strange.
Lee-are we related? Waldron is my maiden name!
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Re: allergic doberman?
[Re: Betty Waldron ]
#159641 - 10/23/2007 04:33 PM |
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Betty, i seriously doubt it. I from lou,ky. Not a common name but were not all related.
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