I am in search of any opinions or suggestions to what may have occurred while with puppy’s new family in three weeks time.

My husband and I kept litter of German shepherd puppies until 10-12 weeks to ensure socialization and basic skills were learned and understood by puppies. We wanted to be sure puppies had a good start and would not end up as wild animals.

We sold a loving delightful female German shepherd puppy to a very nice couple about 3 weeks ago.

Numerous puppy temperament tests indicated puppy would look to human a pack leader.

The couple came 3 times spending 1 1/2 hours each time to be sure the puppy and family was a match. The couple was eager to continue training, agreed with use of crate, understood need for continuing socialization, and was willing to feed premium diet.
We also included six free training sessions with their new puppy.


After 1 1/2 hours of puppy orientation showing how this puppy with excellent focus would sit at doors, before and after leaving crate, ate well, minimal puppy nipping, walked well on leash, I could go on.

Three weeks of emails, that puppy was doing well; she had begun nipping more so I referred the woman to Leerburg articles on puppy biting. I received an email that puppy biting was improved.
The new owner also had a Newfoundland that was not thrilled with the newcomer. The couple's son and wife came to visit for one week. Emails now indicated puppy was a wild girl who would not listen. More advise given. Next email puppy was improving.

The final lengthy email indicated puppy was doing much better with the exception of the Newfoundland lunging at her. They were preparing for vacation and were sending her to stay with another couple that had two happy German shepherd. At the end of the email, owners indicated that if; the puppy liked the family she would stay with them.

Our signed contract stated that if new owner was unable to care for puppy or did not wish to keep puppy they would return her back to original seller. I called the couple and they agreed to have puppy stay with us while they went on vacation.

The puppy arrived with her crate formerly used for the Newfoundland; my extra bathroom is smaller than the crate. The puppy had no previously learned skills, is no longer house trained, is fearful and lunges barking at all strangers, and was literally a wild animal.

We began by separating puppy from the house, she howled in the beginning and is now quiet. After working with her since Thursday evening puppy will now sit, is beginning to have eye contact me, will returned to me when called, eating well, willing to be pet, improved with laying down to relax, jumping up is significantly improved, is not housebroken but improving.

This morning when my husband approached her crate she began barking and retreated to the back corner for safety. Once puppy realized this was my husband she came forward licked his hand and came out sitting to have her lead attached.

On a final note puppy is fearful of people wearing eyeglasses or hats. When glasses or hats are, removed puppy comes forward with hesitation. After sniffing stranger puppy is kisses their hand and is semi relaxed.

Puppy is not at all afraid of me, her siblings that remain, the sire, dam, or our 13 year old shepherd.

The owners indicated they would like to try again when they return home. Since their intention was to give her up before would this be advisable? Are we within our rights to say this is not a good match? Was this puppy possibly abused? Should we return their money after three weeks? The puppy is emotional damage is clearly in excess of purchase price.

Thank you in advance for your assistance.

Kathie Simond



Edited by Kathie Simond (10/28/2007 07:23 AM)
Edit reason: spelling

I think it's well within your rights and responsibility to not let the pup go back with them. DO refund the entire amount paid so there's no backlash. It's obvious somethings went very wrong at their home. I'd tell them the truth, that the pup's behavior was one of fear and you will be refunding their money and you will keep the puppy.

Edited to add: I wouldn't even bother to ask them what went wrong, they probably wouldn't tell you the truth, or worse yet, say "nothing went wrong". It doesn't matter what they would say anyway, the pup by its behavior is telling you something happened.

I would offer to refund the money and take the pup back since they already indicated they wanted to get rid of the pup.

If they insist on trying again, I don't think you have any legal rights to keep the pup unless there is a clause in the puppy contract addressing this type of situation.

What's the vaccine history on this pup? Many times extreme behavior changes are linked to vaccines. It may be a long shot, but not unheard of.

the unruliness I can understand, if they were not clear in their leadership with the dog but the complete change of personality and fearfulness seems a bit odd to me.

I would NOT return this pup to them, regardless.

Offer them their money back, like Mike suggested.

Alonsa had her first puppy shots when originally sold.
The owner did mention the Vet was impressed with Alonsa's structure and coat sheen, but did not mention additional vaccines.
I do know that her method of learning was saying No or Sit repeatedly, then asking her husband to assist.

When the couple dropped Alonsa off at our house I did ask questions to know what we would be dealing with. The couple looked at each other before answering questions such as; is she still house trained,crate trained,leash trained, does she sit, how much does she eat, how do they react to her biting, jumping, lunging. The wife cried and said she screwed up, the answers were vague and I left it at that, not wanting them feel interrogated. I will add that Alonsa laid down next to me and put her head on my lap. When the woman tried to hug Alonsa goodbye she whined, struggled to get away, and came back to my side.

I appreciate your kind respomses and will offer a refund when couple returns from their vacation.

Thank you,
Kathie

Good luck with this poor puppy. Sounds like she needs stability and patience.

I have known people who, even though they love thier pups and hav good intentions, loose patience. We all know how long and how many reps it takes to train them. At this young age, they should be allowed to be pups, but encouraged and taught gently what is expected of them. I have seen people lose their patience and "spank" their pups. Nice way to say beat. They may not even really mean too, just lash out in anger or pain. I hope that this hasn't been the case here...

I'm sure you will be able to help her tremendously.

I would be thinking long and hard on what you are going to say to the owners when they return to pick up their puppy. In no way would I let on that they had anything to do with this new behavior the puppy is showing. Your goal should be to convince them that you are doing them a huge favor by returning their money and you keep the dog. I would go so far as to tell them that after observing the pup for the past week you are very concerned with the fear/aggression you have seen in this pup and could not in good conscience place a puppy like this in their home. I would say anything to convince them to take the money and go away.

Kathie:It is a very sad situation. But I agree, not to let them have the puppy but to refund their money. The wife crying sounds like she got overwhelmed. Perhaps they let their older dog play too roughly with the puppy and that could be a result in crazy wild behavior. I have a new puppy and my one year old Bindi and him love to play. However, I make them take time outs, "rests".
Maybe you could suggest that they get a few leerburg videos and watch them before they get another puppy some where.
Or a trip to their house (If they are near by)and see the interaction with their own older dog would be interesting. It is sad when people don't put into action what they have learned, it looks like you did all you could to help them start out the right way.
Glad to hear the pup is recovering nicely.
Love,
Sharon Empson

I really doubt that that these people will want to get the pup back. If they come back to your place after their vacation I would not let them see the pup, especially if her behavior has improved, let them remember how she was acting when they dropped her off. Mail them a refund so that it arrives 2 days after they get back, and get a tracking number (it won't be lost on the bottom of the mail pile).
If the opportunity presents itself you could also stress to them that if they feel the need to get a pup they should wait until the Newfie is better trained, for the safety of the pup, pick a breed that will be better suited to their personalities and lifestyle (an animated stuffed toy dog on a pillow?), and read up on the Leerburg training articles.
Frankly, with all the support from you and previous training the pup had, they don't seemed to be equipped to deal with a dog. They both need to be better educated about handling a dog before they consider getting another pup. Hopefully they will also realize the same thing.
If they insist that they want this pup, or a different pup from you, and you feel that there is no legal recourse, you could require them to take additional free training lessons at your place with the pup (be sure to incorporate the Newfie in some of the lessons) before they take her home to live with them.
If you approach the whole thing with authority in a matter-of-fact polite manner they will probably not argue with you, and will not want to get this pup back. Remember that they were going to give the pup to their friends.

to add, I would not accuse them of anything...just suggest that maybe it's not a good match...if they push, I would video the puppy with you and show them how she acts now, and then bring the puppy out to see them after seeing the video and watch what the puppy does...it should be self evident if some abuse has happened.

Definitely refund the money, though, to avoid any legal hassles.